Posted on 07/04/2004 9:57:06 PM PDT by Gracey
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
Didn't Washington say that the wording used was "unfortunate". It was also mainly a treaty to pacify a bunch of thankless Islamic terrorist pirates. Was it not?
I agree with her...and I am a Jew! Shut up pal, and understand how frustrated our Christian brothers and sisters are with the athiestic ACLU and their Judicial stooges running roughshod over the freedom OF religion, and perverting it into Freedom FROM ALL RELIGION. This is just a result of that understandable frustration. Unfortunately so many Jews do not comprehend that what hurts Christians today will inflict them tomorrow, and they need to jettison support for Secular Humanism and join hands with Evangelicals to battle our common enemies within.
> One is NOT free to practise whatever religion one wants ( eg you may not practise the Black mass
You can't? Since when is Satanism illegal? It's always been silly, but when was it outlawed?
> you may not legally be a snake handler
You can't? Funny, I sure see a lot of them on TV...
> you may not practise polygamy).
Well... for now...
There are about a thousand other things you should be worrying about more than these words. It has been generations since our politicians have frequently used words like this in the open, and your reaction is expected I suppose. Remember this, our nation really is founded on Christian principles. And also consider that there is no long term consequence to your life or your freedom to worship as you choose by supporting this. Why be so ardent about this when of all the religions on this planet, Christianity is possibly the safest and most tolerant? As long as the Christian values of our founders hold the course of our nation, you will never be run out of our country. You will never be told how to worship. You will never be forced to bow before our faith. True Christians don't want to harm you. For us there is no point. Where your soul goes when you die is the important part to us, and we want everyone to live as long as possible so as to have the most time to get right with their Lord. Jews especially will never have anything to fear from Christians as our roots are so closely tied. While there is a chasm between us on the old/new testament issue, we both know the same God. So for Jews in particular, there is especially nothing to fear.
What I'm trying to say is please, even when the Republicans make statements like this that seem too strong... consider the heart of the men making the statement. You know they don't want to harm you or force you into Christianity. So why fight them now? Lets get the multitde of other problems taken care of first, such as the liberals who want to destroy the definition and foundation of sin and righteousness that we both believe in, before we worry about whether calling this a "Christian" nation is somehow offensive. We need a revival of these Christian values to win the spiritual, moral and ethical war that is being waged in our country today. Some Republicans are reaching for the ways of our founders. And in these times we live in we need thier wisdom and guidance desperately.
Plese don't be a partner with the liberals in forcing the Republicans to be politically correct when all they are trying to do is what is right.
> Didn't Washington say that the wording used was "unfortunate".
Dunno, could be. But:
1: he was no longer President.
2: I've great respect for the Founders and authors of the Constitution... it says what it means and means what it says. and nowhere does it say that "The US is a Christian nation and/or founded on Christian principles." If it was important, it'd be in there.
> It was also mainly a treaty to pacify a bunch of thankless Islamic terrorist pirates.
Yup. A bit of historical irony if you read the Article again.
Many of the Jews who found refuge in the U.S. fleeing from other so called "Christian nations" such as Russia, Spain, France, Germany, etc. The pilgims who were ironically Christians themselves fleeing from other Christians in England! According to some of the replies, this should have been impossible for them to be persecuted in these places. So I agree I'd rather live in a "Free" country than a "Christian" country. A place where all would be free to worship god in the way according to their own traditions. I mean after all if you do believe there is only one God, then why would be threatened by other forms of worship to him?
One nation under God, NOT Allah works for me.
Admittedly, the use of treaties to debate the nature of a nation is a bit... reaching. But I'm still waiting for those passages from the Constitution that declare that the US was founded on Christian principles...
The fact that the FF were Chistians is not entirely germaine. If I were, say, a Buddhist and I built an airplane, would it be "an ariplane built on Buddhist principles?"
The FF were extremely well educated, in many ways far more educated that most of us here on FR (this is not a putdown, necessarily... they had much less history and science to study, after all). And much of the education they were steeped in was the learning of Greece and Rome. While Roman learning aided their engineering, Greece aided their ethics.
Among friends as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes the tension seems to be between those who would respect the establishment of religion (some Republicans) and those who would respect the establishment of atheism (some Democrats). A wee bit like being between a rock and a hard place.
"You sound like a liberal that just wants to make an argument."
I am a liberal, and I do want to make arguments. I make them, too. Sometimes, I even win them. Heaven forbid people argue at convention. What's the world coming to?
"If GOP is one party under Jesus"
So, they finally are starting to get honest about where they want to go.
"nowhere does it say that the US is a Christian nation and/or founded on Christian principles "If it was important, it'd be in there"
Couldn't it be that is because it was just a given. Even now, every Islamic nation believes (rightly) we are a Christian nation. Why do they think that if it is not true?
So in other words, if and when the Muslim population in America becomes powerful enough to take over foreign policy and side with Iran, then you will just stand back and say, "Hey, what the heck. Muslims are cool too. It doesn't really matter if this nation is identified with any particular religion."
ping
Liberal cheap shot; not worthy of comment.
What is liberal or a cheap shot about it. Sounds like you dont have any legitimate argument so you make it PC. The Texas GOP does sounds like the Taliban. Is their faith so weak that they need the GOP platform to make it real?
You can say that more Americans who bother to practice a religion, practice Christianity but that is about it. As far as it being founded on Christian principles, bull. The founders were Deists. Jefferson, for one, created his own version of the Bible removing all the miracles, the virgin birth, etc.
"Is it any wonder that some call these folk, the "Taliban wing of the party?"
What should be of more concern is that we now have one from their fold in the WH. I voted for Bush even though he was pandering to the religious right because I figured he was making the same play that Ronnie made, pandering to them for their votes but not actually taking them seriously.
But then he gets in and I find that he actually believes this stuff. So as long as the religious right is gaining power in the GOP, I won't be voting Republican.
> Couldn't it be that is because it was just a given.
I find it doubtful. I believe that it was assumed to be agiven that the US was NOT seen as such, because such efforts went into not plastering the name of God and/or Jesus all over all the documents, as a European nation of the time would do. Justifying the divine right of Senators or some such.
> Even now, every Islamic nation believes we are a Christian nation. Why do they think that if it is not true?
Right now, every Islamic nation believes that Islam is the right and True path to God. Why do they think that if it is not true?
I suppose you'd prefer an atheist or maybe wahhabist over a born again christian? if so...by all means...go vote for kerry, have fun!
I've seen good folks banned from here for less than that.
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