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Transport Aircraft Attacked-Baghdad Aiport-Unknown Number Of Wounded
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=1544058 ^

Posted on 06/27/2004 8:22:16 AM PDT by Fast5

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To: CHICAGOFARMER; eastforker

I suspect you misunderstood eastforker's post. The M2 Browning .50 cal machinegun is more than capable of bringing down aircraft, and has done so many times in its long career. It is also capable of putting more than a "single 50 cal bullet" into a target.

Whether or not it's considered "small arms" for the purposes of this article, or whether the C-130 in this was actually at 10,000 feet when it was hit are not reported here.


41 posted on 06/27/2004 12:54:26 PM PDT by Imal (James Kirk is the Bill Clinton of starship captains.)
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To: ASA Vet
It depends on the takeoff profile (dictated by air traffic control restraints and the threat, among other things) and how they define "small arms." Without knowing departure/approach procedures for Baghdad International, I'd say the aircraft was still under 20K, placing it within reach of 23mm AAA. Anti-aircraft fire of that size is not small arms, but the press (typically) describes anything that shoots bullets as small arms fire. BTW, there are plenty of 23mm guns and ammo left over from Saddam's regime; they're relatively small, mobile, and easy to hide. If the plane was lower, 12.7/14.5 mm heavy machineguns are also a possibility--lots of those in insurgent hands as well.

Finally, it's little consolation for the family of the military member killed aboard that C-130, but the number of firings on coalition aircraft have actually decreased in recent months. When you look at the number of MANPAD SAM and AAA attacks, compared to the number of takeoffs/landings in Iraq, the threat is minimal. My regret is that we don't keep AH-64s or AC-130s on airborne alert, and task them to hose the area where SAMs/small arms fire originates. After a couple of visits from an AC-130, you'd have local Iraqis killling the gunners before they could get off a shot at coalition aircraft. Believe me, you don't want an Apache or AC-130 visiting your neighborhood....

42 posted on 06/27/2004 1:25:57 PM PDT by Spook86
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

It is evident you have never "walked" Tracer fire into a target. If you are ignorant on a subject it is best to keep quiet.


43 posted on 06/27/2004 4:45:04 PM PDT by eastforker (All those in favor of abortion have already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Spook86
After a couple of visits from an AC-130, you'd have local Iraqis killling the gunners before they could get off a shot at coalition aircraft. Believe me, you don't want an Apache or AC-130 visiting your neighborhood....

thanks for the info. :))

44 posted on 06/27/2004 5:42:59 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: Fast5

Seems you don't want to be flying out of Baghdad Airport these days...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1161372/posts


45 posted on 06/27/2004 7:17:28 PM PDT by KangarooJacqui ("Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.")
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To: kenth
Still, someone died. I wonder why this article says it is a US Air Force plane.

It wasn't. Ignore my previous post on this thread... I think this must have been the same plane (an RAAF - that is, Australian, routine transport flight, carrying Americans)
46 posted on 06/27/2004 7:19:42 PM PDT by KangarooJacqui ("Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.")
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To: PAR35; SheLion
So it merits a "whew" if someone dies on a plane belonging to one of our allies? I hope I am misunderstanding your comment. Could you explain?

Yeah, enquiring minds want to know!

And if you did mean it how it read, SheLion, Allied minds are extremely annoyed... it was an Australian plane, on which one of your own was unfortunate enough to lose his life.

More here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1161372/posts
47 posted on 06/27/2004 7:24:17 PM PDT by KangarooJacqui ("Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.")
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To: eastforker

It is evident you have never "walked" Tracer fire into a target. If you are ignorant on a subject it is best to keep quiet.


AT 10,000 feet you never get there with enought engergy to bend a rivet let alone bring it down.

Second a single bullet per my post at 10,000 feet is the siver bullet concept. Energy of the bullet at that hight is insignificant.


48 posted on 06/27/2004 8:15:15 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

For a .50 cal????


49 posted on 06/27/2004 8:22:18 PM PDT by eastforker (All those in favor of abortion have already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Imal

I suspect you misunderstood eastforker's post. The M2 Browning .50 cal machinegun is more than capable of bringing down aircraft, and has done so many times in its long career. It is also capable of putting more than a "single 50 cal bullet" into a target.

Whether or not it's considered "small arms" for the purposes of this article, or whether the C-130 in this was actually at 10,000 feet when it was hit are not reported here.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Yep you are right it was not at 10000 feet it was at 6000 meters or as I calculate to be 19,500 feet per post 27. According to post 27 it was 9,500 feet 3.69 miles in elevation.

Well, this boils down the the single bullet theory, or pilots use to say, silver bullet or bb bullet.

xxxx

Sorry to hear one fatality. But I stand behind my theory.


50 posted on 06/27/2004 8:25:10 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

22 killometers is 13.67017 miles
I think they are talking distance from the airport as i dont think small arms can go 13 miles but i may be wrong !


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yep you are right with the calculations.


51 posted on 06/27/2004 8:26:24 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: Imal

50 cal machinegun is more than capable of bringing down aircraft, and has

xxxxxxxxxx

Yes true at close range. Close range is 500 to 1000 yards. This aircraft was at least 10,000 if 22 kilimeters from the airport when the bullet struck. Being this bullet was probably from a terrorist group it was NOT a 50 cal bullet.



52 posted on 06/27/2004 8:28:10 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: eastforker

It is evident you have never "walked" Tracer fire into a target. If you are ignorant on a subject it is best to keep quiet.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

You just over ran your intelligence.

Just purchased another 800 rounds of tracers.

How many rounds have you fired in the past two years??


53 posted on 06/27/2004 8:30:03 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: Fast5
"insurgents"

I hate the word insurgents. Lets call them what they are...the phvkeen enemy!

54 posted on 06/27/2004 8:35:02 PM PDT by Robert Lomax
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To: eastforker
A .50 caliber MG is still considered small arms but man can it do some damage.

Depends on where and what it hits. Capt Kim Campbell brought this Warthog home even with the damage shown in the photo.

55 posted on 06/27/2004 8:35:49 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

How many rounds have you fired in the past two years??

I know its not a question for me but

lol

Thousands Tee hee hee


56 posted on 06/27/2004 8:42:01 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("In America, our origins matter less than our destinations, and that is what democracy is all about")
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

How many rounds have you fired in the past two years??

I know its not a question for me but

lol

Thousands Tee hee hee

xxxxxxxxxxx

I waiting for the duds response. What do you think he will say??


57 posted on 06/27/2004 8:45:57 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: FreedomCalls

Just so you know taht aircraft picture you are posting was flown by a woman pilot and returned to the base with no hydraulics.

By the way those holes are NOT 50 cal. This is air burst fragments holes.


58 posted on 06/27/2004 8:47:51 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

If he owns a gun 3 Maybe!

And he missed the target twice !


59 posted on 06/27/2004 8:49:43 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("In America, our origins matter less than our destinations, and that is what democracy is all about")
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To: KangarooJacqui; SheLion
And if you did mean it how it read, SheLion, Allied minds are extremely annoyed... it was an Australian plane, on which one of your own was unfortunate enough to lose his life.

My initial reaction was to flame away at SheLion, but I had hoped I had misunderstood the comment, and I wanted to give her a chance to explain. Well she has been on FR posting since then, and she has not offered any clarification, so I guess she stands by her comment, even after it is clear that the fatality on the Australian plane was an American. (Apparently, to her, it is the ownership of the plane which is important).

I find her comment disgusting, and I appreciate the Australian and other Allies who have stood by America.

60 posted on 06/27/2004 8:55:37 PM PDT by PAR35
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