Posted on 06/16/2004 2:43:47 AM PDT by SmithPatterson
I just learned that for years the federal government used to pay the Hoover Institute $100,000,000 a year to "track" economic and political conditions in the Soviet Union. Did the Hoover Institute predict the fall of the USSR? Did the Hoover Institute ever have a clue what was really happening in Soviet Russia? No, just one man -- Ronald Reagan -- knew the collapse of the Soviet Union was inevitable and kept at it when everyone, probably including the Hooverites, said he was crazy, nuts and would get us all incinerated in a nuclear holocaust.
That's just one anecdote of obscene wasteful government spending that kills jobs and prosperity.
The fact that these congressmen insist the government will continue to be "fully funded" under some new scheme is the dead giveaway.
If a sales tax is an excise tax, why do they need a Sales Tax Bureau;
Read the bill , section 404, where you got the quote, when a state chooses not to administer or make provision for the adminstration of the NRST, the Sales Tax Bureau is the office that will administer the NRST in that state:
`SEC. 404. FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION IN CERTAIN STATES.
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and an Excise Tax Bureau?
"to administer those excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms." per the section you quoted. Don't read very well do you.
Give it up, Ahab, or you'll go down with the whale.
Such cheekiness from the peanut gallery. I note when you fail to make your case in one level, you decide to judge your case the rapidly go on to try another sloppy argument to try again. The fevered last grasps of the desparate.
Oh well, anything relating to the topic of the thread is reasonable to keep on gathering ineterst and educate the world on the particulars of the NRST :O)
Ahh dear me, need to cruise awhile, be back soon so don't go far.
Then its back to "Here fishy fishy fishy, I got a nice sharp surprise for yah." :O)
"What happens, geezer, if the tax plan is implimented and the effective rate ends up 50% t0 100%? Will you be out to appoligize to the folks you partisanized, or wil you vanish?"
What happens, Mr. Terrell, when the FairTax is implemented and, not only does the rate drop significantly below 23% within the first 36 months but we also have an enormous economic boom as a result of improved US producer pricing, elimination of tens of billions of $$ in compliance costs, etc. Will you be around to apologize for demonizing a very well thought out proposal?
"LOL. YES!"
Good. I look forward to that day.
Probability: zero!
If the sales tax is an excise tax and the states collect the sales tax or the Sales Tax Bureau collects it in states that don't, what exactly is the Excise Tax Bureau collecting?
An excise on the use or consumption of taxable properties and service as defined in HR25, collected at from the purchaser at point of retail purchase by vendor or on entry into the country by customs if purchased outside the United States.
SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
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A LAW DICTIONARY
by John Bouvier, Revised Sixth Edition, 1856:
EXCISES. This word is used to signify an inland imposition, paid sometimes upon the consumption of the commodity, and frequently upon the retail sale.
excise ['ek-'siz, -'sis] 1: a tax levied on the manufacture, sale, or consumption of a commodity
(compare income tax property tax)2: any of various taxes on privileges often assessed in the form of a license or other fee
(see also Article I of the Constitution in the back matter)
(compare direct tax)
That is how it will be administered, and how the courts will render it's effect, as an excise levied and collected under:
Constitution for the United States of America:
- Article I Section 8: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises,
to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States;
It is always nice to see the opponents of legislation or a law reduced to arguing narrow definitions because they have no substantive points to support their view.
TP'r : One who's legal argument has the substance of used toilette paper, arguing over what "the meaning of the word is, is".
An excise on the use or consumption of taxable properties and service as defined in HR25, collected at from the purchaser at point of retail purchase by vendor or on entry into the country by customs if purchased outside the United States.No, the states and/or the Sales Tax Bureau is collecting the "tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services" "collected from the purchaser at point of retail purchase by vendor." So that still leaves the question: What is the Excise Tax Bureau collecting?
EXCISES. This word is used to signify an inland imposition, paid sometimes upon the consumption of the [class of economic goods], and frequently upon the retail sale.and:
a tax levied on the manufacture, sale, or consumption of a [class of economic goods]
It is always nice to see the opponents of legislation or a law reduced to arguing narrow definitions because they have no substantive points to support their view.Please, you are the one who brought up "excise taxes" in post #264. I guess because you had "no substantive points to support your view."
The question is "is the sales tax an excise tax." It is not.
As you wish, if you want to call a sales tax something other than one or more excises collected together into a general tax you may.
However be aware that the legislative language that many states use in their bills and laws, often explicitly define the term "sales tax" as meaning a specific excise tax or group of excise taxes.
Such usage can be found in the statutes & legislative bills of both Hawaii and and Wyoming as I recall. I see no reason to believe they are isolated in such usage.
And most states have no problem with their businesses applying their sales taxes on the basis of tax included pricing as long as those businesses let make sure the customer is aware that their pricing includes the sales taxes levied on the taxable property and services their sales tax applies to.
I see nothing to be gained arguing the matter further, since the NRST demands representation of the price including price of purchases as well as the tax free price and tax amount applied. Which make the computation of tax by the customer straight forward using the NRST measures in NRST conforming states.
Please, you are the one who brought up "excise taxes" in post #264 . I guess because you had "no substantive points to support your view."
I use the term "excise levied", but no need to quibble in reference to the classification of the NRST.
The post makes clear the NRST provides for both tax included pricing, along with compatible tax inclusive rate lending it self to the context of the current regulation concerning current excise taxes to which the national government is subject.
If you want to figure the NRST with its tax inclusive measures is not explicitly compatible with that regulation that's your problem.
Obiously you already knew, as well as having the answer through HR25, those taxes not now collected by the BATF, as the section stated.
Can you tell us what will be added, repealed, or amended about that Subtitle or anywhere else in Title 26, which could come under that Excise Tax Bureau for being among "excise taxes not administered by the" BATF?
Just wondering.
By the way can you tell us what excises are not catagorized as Miscellaneous Excise Taxes thus not included in that particular Subtitle yet are indeed among "excise taxes not administered by the" BATF?Subtitle E - Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes except for chapter 54 & 55.
Can you tell us what will be added, repealed, or amended about that Subtitle or anywhere else in Title 26, which could come under that Excise Tax Bureau for being among "excise taxes not administered by the" BATF?I'm not sure what you're are asking.
I'm not sure what you're are asking.
Thats ok, since it doesn't make a difference as to how the NRST will be treated in the courts and in actual practice.
Under HR25, The NRST will be administered by the individual states, third party chosen by them, or the Sales Tax Bureau as the default case. Other excises, (i.e. inland impositions) will be split between the BATF and the Excise Tax Bureau. Tariffs.
BTW, I found another definition of "excise tax".
Works well for basic educaton about federal taxes that exist TODAY for which the IRS is responsible. Which is the rather limited purpose of that glossary.
It certainly has little to do with HR25 which is not yet enacted nor discussed by that web site. Agencies of government modify such terms tailoring to exigent circumstance and need all the time. What is specific to current circumstance changes with new circumstance.
Under HR25, The NRST will be administered by the individual states, third party chosen by them, or the Sales Tax Bureau as the default case. Other excises, (i.e. inland impositions) will be split between the BATF and the Excise Tax Bureau. Tariffs.Actually, HR25 is a little outdated. Last year, as part of the Homeland Defense stuff, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau was created under Treasury to collect the excise taxes the BATF use to collect.
actually, HR25 is a little outdated. Last year, as part of the Homeland Defense stuff, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau was created under Treasury to collect the excise taxes the BATF use to collect.
Considering HR25 was re-intoduced 7 Jan last year, that is hardly surprising. Each re-introduction has it changes for such changing circumstance and input from the public as it progresses.
Some changes in wording have been proposed and are being considered for inclusion in the next re-introduction as a consequence of our discussions.
The content of these FR debates get attention where it matters, believe it or not.
Actually you're wrong, not all mexicans are of spanish decent, some and most of them are of native ancestry.
Besides back then the Spanish invaded Mexico and raped the Indians which produced mestizos but they were later droven out of the country even though it was a Spanish colony. Later Mexico and other Latin American countries were called Spanish America.Today most Mexicans are Indigenous and some have little Spanish blood. I think a lot of mestizos today carry about 1/8 or less European. And there's some Spaniards living in mexico today, they're called Creoles(In Spanish,Criollos, born in America of Spanish parentage), Peninsulares(Spaniard born in Spain and reside to mexico) and gachupin(Spanird born in Spain and living in Mexico), and they consider themselves New mexicans.
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