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You are sincerely misinformed. While I agree with some of your comments, particularly about the need for reformation of Islam, I completely disagree with your vehemence on pessimistic appraisal of this fledging military force. The dynamics are immense. You are dealing with a situation in which Iraqi nationals are asked to take up arms against brothers in their eyes. Against fellow tribe mates. Against people from their region. Against fellow Muslims. The psychology isn't derived from years upon years with a gun to their heads even though this may have been a necessity given the dynamics plainly visible today. It is derived of over a thousand years of social behaviour quite different from what we traditionally accept. Training, trust and respect over a long period of time regardless of failures is going to create the force we want there. In their ability to fail and live through it will be their ability to change and become stronger.

Point 2: The majority of men and women in Iraq are Shiite. The same branch of Islam as is observed by the Iranians. It is common knowledge that an Arab will trust you with his or her life if you give them proof that you will do the same in return. Most of these people, under interrogation, will look at you like a member of their own family if you pour them a cup of tea, light them a cigarette and sit down with them to chat instead of yell. It is the custom. An Arab lets you into his house, pours you tea and you are safe. Now, this generalization said, what do you think the common response was of the Arabs in Iraq, particularly, the Shiite majority under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, after the United States of America decided to pull out and make good on its promise to Saudi Arabia to leave after expelling the Iraqi forces from Kuwait? The consequential crack down, disappearances in the night and ultimate drop in quality of life amongst the Shiite may seriously be a reason for our current problems with creating a fan base in that region. You won't trust an Arab...(oh and all Arabs are the same blah blah blah)...is probably equally mirrored with historical proof to back this distrust by the "Arabs" in Iraq.

What we need to do now, River Rat, is accept the complicated dynamics of the arena. We need to arm ourselves with knowledge and the understanding that throwing money around isn't going to dissolve difficulties the way it does on our side of the world. We need to observe their ways of life the way they see it and we need to draw clear and distinct difference between the various groups, tribes, religions, etc that make up what you so described at "Arabs" that compose the population of Iraq.

As for the Kurds...yes, it is far safer in their part of Iraq then in any other mainly do to the effect of need and lack of historical betrayal. They don't have a whole nation of Shiite friends sitting right next to them and they experienced what couldn't be described any other way then genocide. They also have a common goal...the creation of Kurdistan and a nation right next to them that is currently infusing its special forces inside Iraq to possibly help this goal from coming to fruition.

Lastly. As for the reformation of Islam. I seem to recall that that horrible anti-semite Martin Luther drew up his reformation and attacked a single entity called the Catholic Church. Now, the Catholic Church and "All of Islam" have something of a huge difference being that . . . there was and is a single authority in the Catholic Church and, "All of Islam" is actually composed of many different branches, each of which consider the other to be kaffer or infidel. A reformation of Islam would have to happen in Saudi Arabia first with the gaining of control Mecca and Medina by Islamic militants and the establishment of a single authority followed by several hundred years of expansion and homogenization of the religion before someone brave enough to demand change stepped forward. You really want that? I would rather see Islam converted over time to something meaningless, to be exchanged by a high mileage, efficient car in every garage and Iraqi/Saudi/Syrian/etc flags flapping in the wind, casting shadows on vinyl siding.

I really am quite sick of all the bull.... that pops up on the internet. I refer to the internet as The Giant Lie Machine. Maybe instead of surrendering to generalizations, River Rat, you can pick up a book about these people and draw up an educated theory and support your theory before posting your crap for other people to scoff at.

Everything I needed to learn about Arabs and militant Islam, was driven deep into my heart on 9/11..

The silence of the "peace loving Muslim" was deafening....

As a veteran myself, I need to see PROOF of competency of a fighting force before I trust them or accept them as a reliable ally... At the time of my post -- only the Kurds had demonstrated their willingness to fight the good fight against the Iraqi insurgents fighting the coalition..

You make a big point of the difficulty of Muslim killing Muslim.... Hell, man - they've been killing each other for centuries.. My problem, is they seem unwilling the kill the same Muslims we are trying to kill!

Nothing in your post - gives me reason to retract anything in my post or my opinion...

I remain unwilling to trust any Arab that identifies themselves as a "fundamental or militant" Muslim...
That, in my mind - defines a person who ascribes to a "religion" that calls for my destruction....

For your information, rightly or wrongly - I draw a distinction between Arab Shiites and Iranian Shiites.
I saw no evidence of Iranian citizens celebrating the murder and desecration of Americans -- which seems to be common practice among the Arabs.

The next few weeks will provide ample opportunity for the peace and freedom loving Iraqi to show their commitment - while being asked to address the problem with militants in Najaf and Fallujah. It will be interesting to observe...I hope they don't disappoint their country or us...

Semper Fi

It is common knowledge that an Arab will trust you with his or her life if you give them proof that you will do the same in return. Most of these people, under interrogation, will look at you like a member of their own family if you pour them a cup of tea, light them a cigarette and sit down with them to chat instead of yell. It is the custom.

I will agree with you -- lived in Bahrain for some time and ARabs are pretty ok folks -- Saudis are another matter altogether....

An Arab lets you into his house, pours you tea and you are safe.

Quite correct -- a guest is to be defended at all costs. That's why AlQ's attacks on the expats in Saud were treated with disgust by the rest of the Arab world(again, except for the Sauds)

Another point most folks forget -- Syria is a secular regime: Christians, Druze etc. are treated very well there and as equal rights citizens -- there are more than 10% Christians in Syria and a large number of druze who aren't considered Musltim.