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Bush Asked for Vatican's Help on Political Issues, Report Says
nytimes.com via Drudge ^ | June 13, 2004 | David Kirkpatrick

Posted on 06/13/2004 1:10:37 PM PDT by plain talk

In his recent trip to Rome, President Bush asked a top Vatican official to push American bishops to speak out more about political issues, including same-sex marriage, according to a report in the National Catholic Reporter, an independent newspaper. In a column posted Friday evening on the paper's Web site, John L. Allen Jr., its correspondent in Rome and the dean of Vatican journalists, wrote that Mr. Bush had made the request in a June 4 meeting with Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state. Citing an unnamed Vatican official, Mr. Allen wrote: "Bush said, 'Not all the American bishops are with me' on the cultural issues. The implication was that he hoped the Vatican would nudge them toward more explicit activism."

Mr. Allen wrote that others in the meeting confirmed that the president had pledged aggressive efforts "on the cultural front, especially the battle against gay marriage, and asked for the Vatican's help in encouraging the U.S. bishops to be more outspoken." Cardinal Sodano did not respond, Mr. Allen reported, citing the same unnamed people.

A spokesman for the Vatican declined yesterday to disclose the contents of the meeting, which followed the president's brief meeting with the pope. Jeanie Mamo, a spokeswoman for the White House, said: "They had a good, private discussion. They discussed a number of priorities of shared concern, and the president's and the Vatican's positions on these issues are well known."

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, called the report "mind-boggling." "It is just unprecedented for a president to ask for help from the Vatican to get re-elected, and that is exactly what this is," Mr. Lynn said. Linda Pieczynski, a spokeswoman for Call to Action, a liberal Catholic group, said, "For a president to try to get the leader of any religious organization to manipulate his fellow clergymen to support a political candidate crosses the line in this country."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bush43; catholiclist; religion; vatican; vaticanvisit

1 posted on 06/13/2004 1:10:37 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: plain talk
"...just unprecedented for a president to ask for help from the Vatican to get re-elected..." Mr. Lynn said. Linda Pieczynski... said, "For a president to try to get the leader of any religious organization to manipulate his fellow clergymen to support a political candidate crosses the line in this country."

But when Clinton and Gore made innumerable appearances in churches across the country, drumming up issues and election support, we didn't hear one peep out of these people.

2 posted on 06/13/2004 1:24:50 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: plain talk
The accusation by church-state separation orthodoxy partisans is not even worth trifling with. But this is a very interesting and encouraging story. Sure there is a political even electoral component. But with elected officials, especially a pretty darn honest one like President Bush, especially in light of Reagan's legacy, look also to what they are really trying to accomplish in this country.

The sub-text I see here is that the religiously devoted, including Catholics, really need to take a more active role in the direction of the country itself. Spooked by the ACLU, evangelicals and Catholics are withdrawing into their shells. They don't want to stick their necks out and lose even more ground.

3 posted on 06/13/2004 1:33:44 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy
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To: Bonaparte

".....to manipulate his fellow clergymen to support a political candidate..."


Liars.....they discussed issues, not candidates


4 posted on 06/13/2004 1:37:21 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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To: PeterPrinciple
But, but, but you see, to support any of Bush's issues is to support his candidacy. That's why all the democrat Congressmen and Senators who voted for Bush's legislative initiatives also support his re-election. You see how that logic works? I expect them to be endorsing Bush's reelection any day now.

Waiting... waiting... (any minute now)... waiting... waiting... (the musak is playing in the phone receiver).... waiting... waiting... (next available operator should pick up at any time now)... waiting... waiting... waiting...

5 posted on 06/13/2004 1:43:50 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: plain talk
push American bishops to speak out more about political issues, including same-sex marriage

Same-sex marriage IS clearly a political issue to anyone who has no moral compass.

6 posted on 06/13/2004 1:44:42 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: plain talk

I doubt if these people worried about President Carter approaching the Soviets to defeat Reagan. I guess everyone goes to their own religious authorities!


7 posted on 06/13/2004 1:46:15 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: plain talk

"Citing an unnamed Vatican official, Mr. Allen wrote:"


Good, old "Unnamed official" sure gets around and manages to disparage President Bush every chance he gets.


8 posted on 06/13/2004 2:12:28 PM PDT by Maria S ("And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm."George W. Bush 1/20/01)
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To: plain talk

Ronald Reagan worked closely with JP II on undermining the Soviet Union by supporting the Solidarity Movement in Poland. The intermediary appears to have been William Casey, the CIA director.

What's the problem? The U.S. and the Vatican have a common interest in forwarding traditional western values and proventing the Muslims from taking over the world.

Even Barry Lynde should have enough sense to support a deal that keeps the Mullahs off his back. How well does he think he and the ACLU would do under Sharia Law?


9 posted on 06/13/2004 2:20:11 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
The U.S. and the Vatican have a common interest in forwarding traditional western values

Actually they have a common interest in forwarding traditional CHRISTIAN values. I'm not sure our "western" values are true Christian values any more, though they originated in them.
10 posted on 06/13/2004 2:47:12 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: plain talk

I find it refreshingly interesting that a man not of the Catholic Faith should try to urge the Leader of the Catholic Faith to become more involved and more vocal.
As a Catholic I feel catholics have been quiet much too long on extremely important matters to the practice and beliefs to all Catholics and Christians in general.
The Left has been lambasting the beliefs of Christians for Years.


11 posted on 06/13/2004 5:13:31 PM PDT by chatham
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To: plain talk
...and this is totally different than the Dims approaching the Dali Lama, HOW???

Did he enter the Vatican and ask for donations, as a certain Bore did at the Buddhist temple?
12 posted on 06/13/2004 6:44:57 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Cronos

As Christopher Dawson so elegantly demonstrated in his histories, the West IS Christianity. Europe IS Christianity. Without Christianity Europe has no common bond or purpose. That's one reason why the EU is bound to fail.

Notice that both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis use "the West" in their various books with similar spiritual implications.


13 posted on 06/13/2004 7:31:55 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: plain talk
For a president to try to get the leader of any religious organization to manipulate his fellow clergymen to support a political candidate crosses the line in this country."

Bill Clinton did exactly the same thing with the help of Jesse Jackson, and countless other black clergymen. John Kerry trolls for votes in black churches now. What is different here? Oh, GWBush is a republican. Silly me...
14 posted on 06/13/2004 10:54:15 PM PDT by baseballmom
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To: Cicero; Lukasz
And I don't mean that only Europe's "Western" values are increasingly non-compatible with Christian values, even America's is changing for the worse -- witness Mass. decision.

Western values IMO are no longer equivalent to Christian values. Seems to me that Russians, Poles etc. still retain Christian values
15 posted on 06/13/2004 11:08:51 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: plain talk
There have been a lot of articles that have taken something a Bush admin person has said and then blown it up, distorted it and passed the resultant lie off as the truth.

Perhaps President Bush did say something in jest about not all the American bishops agreeing with him, and nothing more. Then the anti-Bush homosexual vatican members leak a distorted rendition of what actually happened, and the liberal press blows it up even more so it doesn't even come close to what happened.

When you think about how riddled the American Catholic church had become with pedophils and homosexual predators, I'd say a definite group of them don't agree with the President. And I don't think the problem is confined to the American church. My bet is that it has only been confronted here, and that the Vatican is still riddled with this problem.

16 posted on 06/13/2004 11:43:50 PM PDT by patriciaruth (They are all Mike Spanns)
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To: plain talk; *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

17 posted on 06/13/2004 11:47:50 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: plain talk
I am not a particular fan of President Bush but this pieee of disengenuous yada-blah-blah written by a master of deception,employed by a far left,pro homosexual,marxist unCatholic propaganda bird-cage liner,is just too much to swallow.

The President would have had to be dead,stupid,or a liar to fail to respond to Soldano in any way but the way that he did. Soldano complimented him for his courageous upholding of traditional family values.

If Bush had said nothing that would have indicated that he was dead. If he would have said "thankyou",that would have meant he did not notice that the Church who asserts that they were established by Jesus Christ and were committed to "Follow Him" were not following Him,or in other words that Bush was oblivious or stupid. If Bush had said,"thanks,I appreciate your support",he would have lied because clearly many bishops are not front and center preaching the gospel,teaching the truth and governing wisely,so he would have lied.

So if he is not dead,stupid or a liar then I have to believe he is alert,smart enough and honest. I had decided quite a while ago not to vote for Bush or support the Republican Party,this article has caused me to rethink my position and perhaps I will change my mind. Because of this little article that so clearly points out the duplicity and machinations and goose stepping mentality of religious,political and media liberals,I am open to a big change. The power of the press cuts both ways.

18 posted on 06/14/2004 12:26:58 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Cronos

Unfortunately big part of Western Europe is atheistic right now, sad is that this tendency will move as well to the East like everything no matter good or bad behavior.


19 posted on 06/14/2004 1:58:00 AM PDT by Lukasz (Hey don't look for my horrible mistakes, I'm learning English here!)
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To: plain talk
"Bush said, 'Not all the American bishops are with me' on the cultural issues. The implication was that he hoped the Vatican would nudge them toward more explicit activism." "

For both Bush and Kerry social issues are just trolling for election votes. It has become a stance like whether taking off your tie to stump speak will gather more votes than leaving it on. The tipping point was when Bush supported Specter because it would bring him the most votes. That move was to change votes, not change hearts and minds. How much more would it have said for social issues, if Bush had supported Toomey.

20 posted on 06/14/2004 7:52:22 AM PDT by ex-snook (Islam's WMD is our war against the birth of children.)
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