Posted on 06/05/2004 11:18:02 PM PDT by adam_az
"And anyone that dares call him on it must be an "anti-semite"."
How about garnering some reading comprehension.
He spectulated as for the reason THE SURVIVORS WOULDN'T TALK TO HIM.
"Adam_az is defending Spector..."
Now I know it's not just your reading comprehension - it's your low IQ.
When the man who did it "apolozises" by say it wasn't his fault and that you should be thanking him for not having a bomb on his plane... Well...
Scorn is due. And due to all those who defend him.
"With heros like Spector it's no wonder Israel finds little sympathy. "
I find it best to keep emotion out of my posts, relying instead on logic and fact. However, I'll make an exception for this quote.
Your comment is that of a complete idiot.
To smear the entire country of Israel over the insensitive remarks of a former pilot is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as claiming this as an example of why Israel recieves little sympathy.
In case you resently crawled out of a rock, the reason for the lack of sympathy is:
1. The world has always, and will always, HATE JEWS.
2. The Arabs have all the oil.
No more, no less.
Hey dude, I understand all that stuff. I'm not sayin this guy Spector is guilty of anything. Except being a pretty hateful human being.
He's a pilot. Not a diplomat. The only apologies that really count are those of the government.
Additionally, if this happened in Saudi Arabia, you guys might have more of a point here. Because at least then you know the country as a whole hates Americans.
However, Israel is really the last country deserving of 4 decades of conspiracy theories regarding the intentional murder of Americans.
Israelis love Americans, and everything American. I've seen more American patriotism in Israel then in most parts of California that I've lived in.
This pilot made a mistake in war. A mistake that wasn't directly his fault. We can blame lots of people for this (including, and especially, the NSA or whoever sent this ship there in secret). But the best 'person' to blame is the FOG OF WAR.
"Hey dude, I understand all that stuff. I'm not sayin this guy Spector is guilty of anything. Except being a pretty hateful human being."
I agree. He's an a$$. It happens.
I'm not dumping on Israel.
I am dumping on this guy.
While I mostly agree with that, the man's apology does matter. Especially to those he hurt. His "apology" offers more injury than healing.
As far as what the NSA did, wasn't the ship in international waters? Did it not have every right to be there?
And yes accidents do happen. It is what you do about them once they happen that really matters.
did you have to bring this up now?
It's a lot more complex than that! Well I didn't intend my comment to be a smear of israel by any means. Reading it a second time it definitely didn't quite make the point I was tryin to make. Anyways. to discuss it further would mean endless debate and on and on.. . :)
So I take my comments back except to say. I damn sure hope this guy isn't indicative of israeli military hero's, or israelis in general. :)
Typical ATC pukes. Lead you into disaster then after it's too late, record something on the tapes to make it sound like they warned you off.
Unmitigated garbage. This lousy excuse for a professional military man has had his identity protected for the almost 40 years that have gone by - it's not "antisemitism" that kept the survivors from confronting him.
He and his compatriots didn't bother getting in close to identify a ship before attacking it - they raked it with cannon and rocket fire, then when that didn't cause enough damage, napalmed the thing. The fact that the ship didn't shoot back should've been a major clue. The fact that no one in the attacking aircraft got up on an international radio channel to interrogate the ship to ascertain its identity before attacking is another clue. (The was little chance that a 20-knot ship could get away from 500-knot aircraft during the pause required to get positive identification).
I am and have been a strong supporter of Israel, but this brutal attack remains a festering sore with me and this Air Force Colonel's attitude is callous and insulting to the memory of our murdered and maimed sailors.
The "I was fighting a war and sh_t happens" defense is garbage and the accusation that the survivors are looking for money is scurrilous.
The questions have not been answered and the responses that we have gotten are not satisfactory. How would Israelis have responded if we had attacked them, killed and wounded their young men, then said that "they were lucky that we weren't armed with bombs or we would have sunk them like the Titanic"? Scummy.
I've tested in the same range. My dad has tested higher, so there's hope for me yet.
As for myself, there are times I've wished I were simpler, so welcome to the club. I've learned to often keep my mouth shut offline, but haven't learned the same lesson online.
Let's be honest, you went personal in the attack on this guy, which I believe is unwarranted. Also, you moved the goalpost, which is unfair.
The typical claim by the Liberty activists is that "Israel knew" and attacked the Liberty intentionally.
The worst charge you can make after reading this, is that the pilots were negligent - IE made a mistake.
The Liberty folks for years have charged Israel with intentionally attacking their ship. One of the pilots had offered to meet with them, and was consistently rebuffed, because his story did not match their beliefs... and then you attack the pilot for speculating as to why.
Many WWII vets have met with their Japanese counterparts - and they were bitter enemies during the war. After being rebuffed for years after a friendly fire incident, you might just turn bitter, too.
If you respond, I won't be back home for hours - I'm about to go take the Jeep out to Tonto National Forest to find some pretty scenery and then drive over it. ;)
Oh this thread should be fun to watch...
There was an American flag flying on the ship. They actually used an oversized flag in the hopes that the attacking planes would see it and realize their mistake. I think they used something like a 7 or 10 foot long flag, which is pretty hard to miss from a plane...
But I guess I'm anti-semetic for just not accepting the apology outright.
{He and his compatriots didn't bother getting in close to identify a ship before attacking it - they raked it with cannon and rocket fire, then when that didn't cause enough damage, napalmed the thing. The fact that the ship didn't shoot back should've been a major clue. The fact that no one in the attacking aircraft got up on an international radio channel to interrogate the ship to ascertain its identity before attacking is another clue. (The was little chance that a 20-knot ship could get away from 500-knot aircraft during the pause required to get positive identification).}
Your analysis leaves little room for improvement. Conspiracy theory or no, the baffoons flying those aircraft should have been, at the least, court marshalled.
Instead, arrogant SOB's like Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Yiftach Spector are promoted to base commander. And many on this thread will continue to wonder why the Liberty continues to be a smoldering hot point of US/Israeli relations for some.....
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.