Posted on 06/05/2004 11:18:02 PM PDT by adam_az
At 1:58 pm on June 8, 1967, Capt. Yiftach Spector lined up his Mirage IIICJ fighter jet above the USS Liberty and raked it from bow to stern with his armored-piercing bullets from his 30 mm guns.
Even now, 37 years later, the attack by the Air Force on the American spy ship on the fourth day of the Six Days' War fuels the fire of intrigue, conspiracy and cover-up theories. Nevertheless, what follows is powerful evidence that the attack was a tragic mistake.
The Israel Air Force archives have audiotapes of the radio transmissions made prior, during and after the attack. They have never been made public. The Jerusalem Post was allowed to listen to these tapes on an exclusive basis together with other Air Force historians. Here, for the first time, the actual transcripts of the radio transmissions between the pilot and ground station appear in the press.
Historians will be the first to say that raw material needs context. Therefore, it is important to present the entire unedited transcript of the attack to prevent Israel bashers from dissecting out the unflattering and incriminating comments and using them out of context.
This said, it is also vital that the text be annotated, translated from the jargon of 1967 Air Force language, to one that can be understood today.
There are a number of dramatic moments, including jockey calls by a pilot: that it would be a "mitzvah" to sink the ship before the Navy arrived and another says it was 'easier than MiGs.'
Another is when suddenly, in the middle of the attack, an unknown voice cuts in from the side: "What is this? What about the Americans?" And finally, the confusion over the identity is dwarfed by the split second decision making made by the chief air controller Col. Shmuel Kislev.
Obviously, listening to the tapes sends chills down one's spine.
The pilots speak only before and after they act. There are full minutes of almost total silence and you know that men are being killed.
The only sound is of an automated female voice of the time being red out every 20 seconds. "The time is now 14 and two minutes."
There are two tapes, one of the radio transmissions between the pilots and controllers, and the other is of telephone conversations between the chief air controller and regional air controllers. The audiotapes themselves were not released. The following transcript is a mix of the two tapes into one transcript, which explains the time overlaps.
Cast of characters: Homeland - Air Controllers Kislev - chief air controller at general headquarters in Tel Aviv Menachem - chief air controller at Air Control South Yigal - Menachem's deputy Robert - chief air controller at Air Control Central Shimon - Robert's deputy L.K. - Capt. Lazar Karni, weapons system officer Kursa - two-ship formation of Mirage IIICJs commanded by Capt. Yiftach Spector Royal - two-ship formation of Super-Mysteres that made the second run on Liberty Nixon - two-ship formation of Mysteres armed with bombs for third strike Pagoda - three torpedo boats commanded by Lt.-Cmdr. Moshe Oren Migdal - one of the three torpedo boats that communicates with the pilots
Background: The Navy has just identified a mysterious vessel off El Arish possibly shelling the ammo depot on the beach. It dispatched three torpedo boats against it, but has asked the Air Force to intercept the ship.
13:50 KISLEV: Yigal, you have a ship at 26 (site designation). Take Kursa over there. If it's a warship then screw it.
YIGAL Clear
13:51 UNKNOWN Wait a minute Kislev. The Navy says that our torpedo boats are in the area and are called Pagoda. They're on frequency 186.
KISLEV If it is a warship you can attack. There are two of our torpedo boats there and they want (the pilots) to either see them or contact them on frequency 186. (There were actually three boats) Robert, do you have Royal?
ROBERT Royal?
SHIMON He is at Hava 16 (grid coordinates) That's route 15.
KISLEV Robert, take Royal along the coast so that if Kursa identifies then he'll be able to go in too.
ROBERT All right
KISLEV Menachem, how much fuel does Kursa have?
MENACHEM he has a lot. About a minute ago he had 3000 (liters)
13:52 KURSA What's the range? Seven turns, 040 degrees. Roger, I'll stay on 19 and 9 (frequencies). How do you call the torpedo boats? Pagoda? Kursa 9 and 3.
13:53 KURSA Homeland, keep on directing me to the place.
HOMELAND 045 degrees, 20 miles. Ah, can you see them at the moment?
13:54 KURSA Affirmative, it looks longer by eyesight.
LK What is this? Americans? (the weapons system officer in the general headquarters blurted out in what he later testified was a hunch.)
SHOMON Where are Americans?
KISLEV Robert, what are you saying?
(quickly disregarding the comment, Kislev moves on)
KISLEV Does he see more torpedo boats north of him?
13:55 KISLEV Menachem, if there are three torpedo boats, then this could be ours. (he is aware of the correct number of boats now)
SHIMON Pay attention, Kursa
13:55 KURSA Pagoda from Kursa. Migdal?
MIGDAL Affirmative
KURSA Are You attacking some ship now?
MIGDAL We're on our way to one.
KURSA OK. I'll come and give you a hand. Where are you?
KURSA Migdal from Kursa. Are you three? There is no need. Bring yourselves up some 10-15 kilometers from the ship. Is it in the direction of your home?
KURSA I see you on a right turn. Why are you turning? It's not in that direction.
MIGDAL OK, all right. Affirmative Affirmative.
13:56 MIGDAL Can you identify the target?
KURSA Can you identify his target, Migdal?
KURSA She's running from you in the direction of El Arish, correction, Port Said. What is it? What is it? A destroyer? A patrol boat? What is it?
MIGDAL Kursa, Can you manage to identify it?
KURSA I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship.
MIGDAL OK, what is it?
KURSA It has one mast and one smokestack
MIGDAL Roger
KURSA It has one mast up front.
13:56 SHIMON Menachem, Kursa is calling you.
SHIMON He says he is starting to strafe them.
MENACHEM I told him that if it is a warship then he has authorization to attack. That was the last command.
KISLEV Menachem
MENACHEM Does he have authorization to attack?
KISLEV He does. If this is a warship then yes. Royal is to be directed to there.
MENACHEM OK
KISLEV Send Royal over there with bombs
ROBERT On what frequency are you attacking?
SHIMON She's running away from this (he says this as he monitors the Liberty on his radar screen)
KISLEV Menachem, after he attacks have him explain to Royal how to find her.
SHIMON She's fleeing very fast.
KISLEV OK, attack.
SHIMON Robert, have Royal call us on 19.
ROBERT Royal to you on 19.
13:57 SHIMON Just a second, Kislev, we see the ship. (on radar) That's one hell of a ship.
ROBERT Menachem, I passing 105th (Super Mysteres squadron) to you on 19. Royal (over) El Arish at 20 (20,000 feet)
KISLEV Menachem, have (Kursa) tell us if there is anti-aircraft fire.
13:58 KISLEV Menachem, nu?
MENACHEM We're asking him. She's not shooting back.
KISLEV Not shooting? Give me 19. (his voice has a puzzled expression)
13:59 KURSA We've hit her a lot ...but maybe she is doing it (putting out smoke) on purpose, I don't know. Oil is spilling out into the water. I'm in eye contact. Great! Wonderful! She's burning! She's burning!
MENACHEM Did you hear? He's hit her a lot. There's a lot of black smoke. There's an oil leak into the water. He's continuing.
KISLEV Was there any anti-aircraft fire on him?
MENACHEM She's burning! The warship is burning!
MENACHEM Shumlik, she's burning! The moment Kursa is finished we're sending in Royal.(he uses Kislev's first name Shmulik in his excitement)
KISLEV That's right, to sink her. (he says this flatly)
MENACHEM To sink her, OK.
14:00 ROYAL Eye contact with the target. Eye contact with Kursa. Royal requests 15 (15,000 feet)
KURSA OK, Kursa is coming in ..you a bit further in. I'll go in the direction OK (his comments are to his wingman)
KURSA I think she is putting out smoke on purpose. It's coming out of the smokestack. OK. I'm finished too. The ship is really burning. There is a large fire and a lot of black smoke.
14:01 KURSA Royal, you altitude? We're at 5 (5,000 feet).
ROYAL You're east, right?
KURSA We're south of the ship.
14:01 KISLEV Menachem
MENACHEM We're sending in Royal
KISLEV Good
ROBERT (garbled) this ship?
KISLEV Menachem, if Royal has napalm it would be more efficient.
14:02 KURSA Affirmative
ROYAL Not ours?
ROYAL Homeland, can you hear? Call Homeland on 19. Ask if it's allowed to go in.
ROYAL I understand do not go in. Fine. We're circling above the ship at 15. (15,000 feet) Tell him that the Navy will be arriving before us. I can see.
14:02 SHIMON Menachem, Royal is calling you.
MENACHEM He got off the line
KURSA I've got him. (Kursa is relaying to control for Royal)
ROYAL Does Royal have permission?
[20 empty seconds pass]
SHIMON Kislev, there's doubt as to the identification.
KISLEV If there is a doubt, don't attack.
SHIMON Don't attack Menachem.
ROBERT Pay attention. There is doubt as to the identification. (Robert consults with a naval liaison officer in his headquarters)
KISLEV What does that mean?
ROBERT OK, you can go in. (apparently resolving the issue with the Navy)
KISLEV You may go in.
KURSA Affirmative, you have permission, Royal.
14:02 ROYAL Sausages, in the middle and up in one pass. Two together. (he instructs his wingman on dropping the napalm) We'll come in from the rear. Watch out for the masts. Don't hit the masts, careful of the masts. I'll come in from her left, you come behind me.
SHIMON Next formation - get a briefing on what took place.
14:03 ROBERT Authorized to sink her?
KISLEV You can sink her.
SHIMON Royal is exchanging words. They started chatting
ROBERT One Eight (sector coordinates) that is not the ship. Wait a minute
14:04 KISLEV Menachem, Is he screwing her?
MENACHEM He's going down on her with napalm all the time.
KISLEV You don't need anymore for the ship. Enough.
MENACHEM There is no need. Our forces are there. The Navy's there too.
SHIMON It'll be worth it just for the insurance.
KISLEV But napalm went there.
UNKOWN What does napalm do (to a ship?)
14:04 ROYAL on the right side of the stern ..
14:05 ROYAL WING You've missed by an undershot.
ROYAL a deep gash
14:05 KISLEV What is Kursa reporting? Was there any ant-aircraft fire?
MENACHIM I've passed him on to 33 (frequency) and asked for a report.
KISLEV Robert, ask Kursa if there was any anti-aircraft fire.
ROBERT Kislev, the Navy asks not to sink her completely. They want to get close and have a look.
SHIMON Have them rescue the people with the torpedo boats to help.
ROBERT OK, finish with this formation. The torpedoes are coming up to the them.
14:06 KISLEV What does Kursa say?
ROBERT I'm telling you already. 'This is easier than (shooting down) MiGs.'
KISLEV What is the situation now?
UNKNOWN I don't know. Two (Royal wingman) hit the ship with (napalm) and now he's strafing.
14:07 ROYAL Fine pull up.
ROYAL I'm behind you. Careful of her antennas.
14:08 ROYAL Homeland from Royal, how do you hear me? She has some kind of marking, P30 and something.
KISLEV Robert, take formation 116 (Nixon) out there too.
ROBERT Good
MENACHEM Her marking (he is cut off by Kislev)
KISLEV Yes I heard. We are checking.
14:09 ROYAL Homeland, if you could have a two-ship formation with bombs (here) before the Navy arrives then it would be a mitzvah. Otherwise the Navy will be here in 10 minutes.
SHIMON Before the Navy arrives, it will be a mitzvah.
KISLEV In the meantime take formation 116 (Nixon). Who is checking this? (the mysterious markings on the ship)
SHIMON Royal reported that it would be a mitzvah before the Navy comes!
KISLEV Look for a flag if they can see one. Have Royal look. See if they can identify her with a flag.
14:10 ROYAL Twelve o'clock ..look higher. Now left, slowly, slowly a bit faster so it will stay external, OK?
14:10 ROBERT Kislev, they (the Navy) are asking us not to do anything else about her. They want to take her. It's a pity to sink her. I want to receive an answer.
KISLEV No, no, We are attacking meanwhile.
14:11 ROBERT Menachem, Is Royal leaving?
MENACHEM Not yet. Just a moment. He is reporting something.
KISLEV OK attack, Menachem (he orders Nixon in for a third strike)
ROBERT Menachem, has Royal left?
MENACHEM Not yet.
14:11 ROYAL Homeland from Royal, do you read me? Pay attention. This ship's markings are Charlie-Tango-Romeo 5. There is no flag on her! She looks like a minesweeper with that marking. Roger, I'm leaving her. I'm staying around one more minute. (the Liberty's correct markings were GTR-5)
14:12 ROBERT What altitude? What altitude is Royal reaching?
MENACHEM Charlie-Senator-Romeo (he incorrectly recalls CSR-5)
KISLEV Leave her! (his flat tone changes dramatically as he realizes this was no Egyptian ship)
ROBERT Leave her. What ship is this?
KISLEV Leave her. (he says tersely) Menachem report the approximate damage. (Redirect) 116 to its original mission.
14:13 ROYAL Homeland, there's external fire on her, a lot of hits on her upper parts. People are jumping into the water. She's not shooting at all. She has hardly any armaments on her. She's going full steam towards the north.
KISLEV Shimon, Robert. We're sending two helicopters to them.
ROBERT Good. Clear. I am dispatching helicopters.
14:14 MENACHEM Kislev, what country?
KISLEV Apparently American.
Coverup There are two negative stories about Israel-US relations that refuse to die and are raised periodically. One of them is the Pollard espionage affair and the other is the attack on the USS Liberty. They often are mentioned in the same breath.
Dozens of books have been written and documentaries made on the attack that killed 34 US sailors and wounded over 170. At least ten official US and three Israeli investigations concluded it was the result of a tragic mistake made in the heat of battle. But for some in the world it was inconceivable that the Israeli intelligence which orchestrated the enormous victory of the Six Days' War could have made such a gross mistake. There must be another explanation.
"There isn't," says Michael Oren, author of the acclaimed Six Days of War and senior fellow at The Shalem Center in Jerusalem. "Conspiracy theories in general live, and regarding Jews and Israel they are immortal."
"They don't die because they tap into the notion or belief of an international Jewish cabal, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion thing," he says. "The USS Liberty conspiracists all claim that Israel uses its lobbies and threaten to withhold support to anyone critical of the country. It is nefarious and sinister. It is anti-Semitism."
Besides that, the incident includes terrific elements for conspiracies, Oren says.
"It involves a spy ship. It involves Israel committing an egregious error in the middle of a war where it was perceived to have been flawless. The combination of the NSA (National Security Agency) and the Israeli Air Force is a conspiracy theorists dream,"
Oren says, adding there was little Israel could to do fight it.
Meanwhile, the survivors of the USS Liberty continue to gather to remember their friends, but also to perpetuate the conspiracy that not only were deliberately attacked, but that it was covered up at the highest American and Israeli levels.
Less than 20 of the hundreds of survivors came to this year's memorial held two weeks ago (May 22) in Nebraska City, Nebraska.
"We all believe we're finally getting to the point where the truth may be told and the world is ready to listen," says Cmdr. David Lewis, who oversaw intelligence on the ship and remembers most of the attack that left him with superficial burns and destroyed his eardrums.
The view from the cockpit Of the four pilots who took part in the attack, three are alive today. One died in 1979 during an aviation accident. For years their identities were classified. Last October, Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Yiftach Spector agreed to be identified and gave an exclusive interview on the attack to this reporter. Here are some of his comments.
"There was a mistake. Mistakes happen. As far as I know, the mistake was of the USS Liberty being there in the first place," said Spector, who at the time was deputy squadron commander of the 101st and used the code name "Kursa" during the attack.
"I did not fire on the Liberty as a human target. I was sent to attack a sailing vessel. This ship was on an escape route from the El Arish area which at that same moment had heavy smoke rising from it," said Spector.
He had been on an air-to-air mission and was not loaded with bombs.
"I was told on the radio that it was an Egyptian ship off the Gaza coast. Hit it. The luck of the ship was that I was armed only with light ammunition (30mm) against aircraft. If I had had a bomb it would be sitting on the bottom today like the Titanic. I promise you," Spector said.
"Every order is given by commanders and the last one to receive it has to decide whether he will pull the trigger or not. In this instance I was the fighter. I checked what I had to check (i.e. that it was a military ship and not one of ours) and pulled the trigger," Spector said.
"The crew should be thankful for their luck (that I was on an air-to-air mission and did not have any bombs) I'm sorry for poor Capt. (William Loren) McGonagle whose leg was wounded and the other guys who were killed and wounded."
"I'm sorry for the mistake. In war mistakes happen," Spector said. "But it wasn't my mistake."
He added he remained baffled that the conspiracy theories live on that Israel deliberately attacked the US intelligence ship. He suggested it might be due to anti-Semitism, or anti-Israeli sentiments. He has never in the past 37 years ever met with any of the Liberty survivors, but had no qualms about doing so now.
"These people never, ever spoke to me. Perhaps they are anti-Semites? Or these guys feel hurt and are looking for guilty parties, maybe to get compensation, or money? I am not afraid to meet them. Anyone who wants to meet with me is welcome. I don't have any claims against them. I don't want any compensation from them or anything. If they want they can look me up. And they best not deal with lies and deception since it won't help. It's best they tell the truth."
"They must understand that a mistake was made here," Spector said. "The fool is one who wanders about in the dark in dangerous places, so they should not come with any complaints."
Spector, 63, who went on to become a triple ace shooting down 15 enemy aircraft, base commander and took part in the infamous 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor, earned a place in the pantheon of Israeli fly boys. He has spent the past 20 years teaching new generation of fliers. He was dismissed from the IAF last year for signing a letter with other pilots protesting the policy of targeted killings.
I take it by your question mark that you're not sure if that's the answer to the my question. Get back to me when you finally figure it out.
Unless your IQ has been halfed in the last day or two, you know exactly what the point is and are just choosing to ignore it. Standard disruptor bs.
I'm definately not defending the Israeli pilots in this instance because I doubt the truth will ever be known. That being said, in the first Gulf War, the second Gulf War, and the Afghanistan campaign (Pat Tillman) many instances of fratricide occured. The voice recording of an Apache helicoptor pilot destroying (unknowingly) a Bradley fighting vehicle and killing US troops comes vividly to mind. This was a terrible occurance and I hope this type of event never happens again. If this truly was a deliberate attack on a known US ship, I hope the people that ordered the attack burn in hell.
Not even close, my oxygen-starved friend. Your post #126 doesn't even come close.
The ONLY subject of the "news report" from that anti-Semitic, Nazi, skinhead source that freefly posted (and pretended not to know where it from), was an unsupported claim that some Israeli military personnel had refused to partake in the attack on the USS Liberty.
Where in your post #126 did it refer to Israeli military personnel that refused to partake in the attack?
Where in your post #126 did it refer to an Israeli pilot that refused to fire on the USS Liberty?
Where in your post #126 did it refer an Israeli lead pilot, named Amon Even-Tov?
Your post challenged zip, zero, nada, nothing about that issue. Want to try again?
--Boot Hill
"Why won't those ungrateful bastards bow down and thank him for not using more powerful weapons against them? They must be anti-Semites!"
That is a disingenuous paraphrase.
This sentence is very supportive of the author's position. If they had been sent out to sink the Liberty on purpose, the Israeli Air Force is quite capable of doing so very rapidly with bombs or torpedos. However the aircraft were not so armed, because they were on patrol for aircraft and the Liberty was in an Egyptian "flee zone". Seems like our boys got a bit too close to the action. The question I have is: was the Liberty flying a flag, if not why not, and if so could it be seen from 5,000 feet. The Israelis clearly should have made a serious attempt to identify the craft before firing. Then again, the banter indicates they suspected the boat was shelling the coast and they wanted to act fast. I would like to see the American side de-classified as well. Surely we had more info than just what the seamen had to say.
What does your post #126 have to do with any claims of anti-Semitism?
You've really bitten off more than you can chew here, SF. I have never advanced any claim that even hinted that having doubts about either the Israeli or American explanation of the Liberty attack, was in any way, anti-Semitic.
Next time, think before you post.
--Boot Hill
Sure. Freefly's posts also said the USS Liberty had been torpedoed, which it was. Apparently the transcripts that the jerusalem post have leave a little out.
He said "I'm sorry for the mistake." in the very paragraph you quoted! Hello!
People don't seem to realize how hot this zone was. Imagine an unidentified foreign military aircraft flying off the Atlantic City coast on 9/11.
Yeah I don't remember the pilots in "Top Gun" taking a sensitivity training class. These guys are arrogant asses--THEY HAVE TO BE. It makes them invincible in the air. They do their job, try and come home alive, and they don't look back.
It was flying a flag. I don't know whether said flag could be clearly seen by a jet fighter zipping along at 10 miles per minute (that's 880 feet PER SECOND) at a distance of 5,000 feet. Fighter pilots are notorious for not missing things on the Earth's surface, no matter how hard they are looking.
I would like to see the American side de-classified as well. Surely we had more info than just what the seamen had to say.
The American side remains officially classified over thirty years later.
Several personages formerly employed by the NSA stated in the 1980s that the Liberty was engaged in electronic reconnaisance against the Egyptian Air Force at the time of the attack, determining whether or not Badger bombers in Egyptian markings were being flown by Russians or Egyptians. Several survivors from the Liberty have repeated it verbatim as fact.
The story is one of American geeks triumphing over the atheistic Commies by intercepting air-ground communications from the Badger aircraft in Russian, mere seconds before the perfidious Zionists set out to murder Americans with malice aforethought.
The story makes for a great movie.
It has only one tiny flaw: it's pure BS.
After the Cold War, the Russians opened up a bunch of their archives. One researcher, looking for information on Russian aid to Egypt during the Six-Day War, found out the facts: The bombers in question were not flying on June 8th, 1967, nor were they using air-to-ground radios: the Russians had bugged them out to Alexandria on Day 1 of the war and kept them grounded for the duration of the war. They stayed off the air for fear of IDing the facility they were at as a major airfield.
These good folks from the NSA know what the Liberty was really doing out there, and why the NSA had systematically isolated it from all Navy chains of command. They have seen fit to lie about it. The crew has seen fit to repeat these lies to this day.
Until somebody on our side of the aisle starts to be honest with me, I will ignore their claims of Israeli perfidy.
And you just described their good points (c8
What has that got to do with anything? At no time was the issue of torpedoes a bone of contention between freefly and me.
The ONLY issue under contention between me and freefly, was freefly's posting of the so-called "news report" from that anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi, skinhead website, that offered an unsubstantiated claim that an Israeli pilot had recognized the vessel as American, and refused orders to fire, and was subsequently arrested when he returned to base.
I challenged that claim, but most especially I challenged freefly's unrepentant use of material sourced from a neo-Nazi website. This is something you would have known, if you had just taken the time to read the exchanges between freefly and me.
Look, SF, I don't have time to do your reading for you. If you can't come to the table prepared and having read all the relevant posts, then don't bother me. And especially don't jump in so damn self-righteously when you're so damn wrong.
If you were to darn lazy to read the posts, at the very least you could have started off asking questions, rather than flinging your arrogant crap around, the way you did.
--Boot Hill
A mistake is made when a left turn is made instaead of a right turn.
Getting caught is a mistake only in method.
FF Well ashamed is a bit strong, but I'll certainly admit that it's a poor source...however, it's 1 of the the only 2 indications that SOME Israelis wouldn't fire on an ally in spite of orders...the other being that 4 out of 5 torpedoes are supposed to have missed. Pretty poor shooting considering the circumstances (even if the helmsman of the Liberty WAS highly motivated).
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Like I said, jump on over to USSLiberty.org and take a good look at the USS Liberty sitting in dry dock in Malta with the big torpedoe hole in it's side. Some of what Freefly posted was apparently correct.
Nice try, but your own posts show it to be the bs that it is.
Good grief, you still don't get it! I have never challenged anything about the Israeli use of torpedoes.
Now explain to me just how torpedoes are relevant to the whether freefly's claim about the Israeli pilot is true or false. And explain to me just how torpedoes are relevant to the irresponsibility of freefly using a neo-Nazi website to support his claim.
Screaming is no substitute for thinking, SF.
--Boot Hill
FF Well ashamed is a bit strong, but I'll certainly admit that it's a poor source...however, it's 1 of the the only 2 indications that SOME Israelis wouldn't fire on an ally in spite of orders...the other being that 4 out of 5 torpedoes are supposed to have missed. Pretty poor shooting considering the circumstances (even if the helmsman of the Liberty WAS highly motivated).
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Like I told you before, I charge extra for mind reading services. Apparently you see some contradiction between those quotes. Please point out where there the contradiction is. (hint: there isn't any!)
--Boot Hill
Oh for crying out load BH. Freefly's post (now removed) said the USS liberty had been torpedoed and that a "mysterious" IAF pilot had refused to bomb it. I said WAAAAYY up in the thread that I couldn't find any reference to this "mysterious" pilot except on internet conspiracy sites. However, the USS Liberty WAS hit with a torpedo.
You ragged Freefly for posting "skin head" material from the git-go and all the way through this thread, even though it now turns out his "info" was at least partially correct. Perhaps you should actually read your own posts and stop letting your USC students post them for you. Is this clear enough or do I have to make little stick figure drawings for you?
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Stick figure number 1. The bottom quote would be YOUR response to Freefly.
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