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Public divide (Southern Baptists Take A Stand on "Godless" Education)
Worldmag ^ | June 2, 2004 | Joel Belz

Posted on 06/02/2004 7:00:33 AM PDT by LadyShallott

Southern Baptists are about to take up a crucial debate over Christian children and state schools

SOUTHERN BAPTISTS, SOMETIMES FAMOUS FOR their fractiousness, are about to take on a debate all but guaranteed to splinter them even further. But give them credit. It's a debate all of America should listen in on and learn from.

The argument will come next month when the Southern Baptist Convention is convened on June 15 and 16 in Indianapolis. It wasn't so tricky in 1997 for the SBC to put its nominal weight behind a resolution of support for the homeschooling movement. Nor was it terribly divisive when a resolution passed in 1999 supporting Christian education in general.

But a radical proposal this year takes a distinctly different tack. It calls on the convention to put its considerable reputation behind a resolution recommending that parents throughout the 16.3-million-member denomination remove their children from what the resolution calls "godless" and "anti-Christian" public schools.

Nor does this resolution come from some cranky, radical corner of the SBC. Its main author is T.C. Pinckney, a retired Air Force pilot and brigadier general and publisher of a popular Baptist newsletter. Mr. Pinckney, as a layman, has in recent years been appointed to some of his denomination's highest and most influential posts by well-known convention leaders like Adrian Rogers and Paige Patterson.

The proposal, co-authored by Texas attorney Bruce Shortt, says public schools like to claim neutrality on important issues—but in the end effectively oppose Christianity and produce an education that is "godless."

"Just as it would be foolish for a warrior to give his arrows to his enemies," the proposed resolution argues bluntly, "it is foolish for Christians to give their children to be trained in schools run by the enemies of God."

No one—not even the resolution's sponsors—predicts passage by the convention's 11,000 "messengers." As the nation's second-largest denomination (less than half the size of the Roman Catholic Church, with its vaunted parochial school system), SBC churches have never stood out for their support of Christian schools. Here and there, individual congregations have established and developed powerhouse schools, both elementary and secondary. But that has never happened as a result of denominational policy.

Indeed, this year's feisty proposal almost certainly springs more from the growing homeschool movement than from the more slowly developing traditional school network. But the Pinckney-Shortt resolution doesn't focus on the Christian school/homeschool distinction. It simply encourages serious Christian parents to form a mass exodus from the public-school system. And Mr. Pinckney predicts candidly that if they do so, the public-school system would probably collapse. "I think that would be one of the finest things that can happen for the United States," he says.

It is precisely such bluntness that is so essential, on the one hand, to engage the debate—and so guaranteed, on the other hand, to make some fellow Southern Baptists pretty angry. For almost certainly, a substantial majority of Southern Baptists still enroll their kids in public schools. Similarly, tens of thousands of Southern Baptists are employed as teachers, administrators, counselors, coaches, and staff in public schools. Many of those people see their work as a critical Christian witness in a sometimes pagan setting.

The Pinckney-Shortt perspective—a perspective that I endorse—does not denigrate the faithfulness of those Christians who are working in state schools. The Pinckney-Shortt proposal is really a totally different debate. One argument is about public witness; the other is about the education of our children. They are very different issues.

I speak fairly often around the country on behalf of Christian schools and homeschool groups. Wherever I go, I try to make just two points: Pick a school that tells the truth. And pick a school that works.

It's a sad conclusion to draw, but more and more obvious, that public, state-sponsored education increasingly flunks both those simple tests. It lies to or at least misleads our children about the most important issues of life. And increasingly, it fails to prepare our children for the marketplace in which they are called on to work.

I don't know which failure is worse—but I do know that Christian parents don't have to settle for either one. And by challenging the good folks of the SBC at large to grapple with these issues, the Pinckney-Shortt proposal will do our whole nation a great favor.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christians; education; homeschoollist; publicschools; sbc
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1 posted on 06/02/2004 7:00:34 AM PDT by LadyShallott
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To: 4everontheRight; netmilsmom; GOPrincess; Sam's Army; Izzy Dunne; TontoKowalski; *Homeschool_list; ..

Your Input?


2 posted on 06/02/2004 7:03:11 AM PDT by LadyShallott ("An armed society is a polite society."~Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: LadyShallott
I would support christian schools run by the SBC.

My wife is a 27 year public school teacher. (8th grade reading teacher) I think the bottom line is that public schools are most impacted by their school boards and by the parents in that district. I know that my experience with public schools here in bible belt Oklahoma is probably unique, and maybe even rare.... but in reality, my wife plays christmas songs in her classroom during christmas. Shares the true meaning of easter every year. Puts promotional items for events at our church out for the kids to take. All sorts of things. And it is just fine in her school district.

Now she does go about it carefully.... when she shares her faith or the true meaning of Easter, it is always while answering questions from a student.

But like I said, I'm sure that our experience with public schools is not the norm, and I would support my denomination moving into education.

3 posted on 06/02/2004 7:14:31 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22
my wife plays christmas songs in her classroom during christmas. Shares the true meaning of easter every year. Puts promotional items for events at our church out for the kids to take. All sorts of things. And it is just fine in her school district.

What a rare and wonderful blessing for your wife and her students to share. That's awesome. Tell her to keep up the good work!

4 posted on 06/02/2004 7:19:44 AM PDT by LadyShallott ("An armed society is a polite society."~Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: LadyShallott; kjam22

wow, this is gonna be tough! We are SB, and our daughter is going to be starting Kindergarten in another year. This year she will be going to a Christian Pre-K, but after that we had planned on sending her to Jenks Public. We moved to Jenks mainly because it has probably the best school system in the state, but it is still a public school. Although I will agree with Kjam that Oklahoma public schools are a lot different than public schools in say, California.


5 posted on 06/02/2004 7:23:43 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Funny how Vietnam vets are 'baby killers' and pro-aborts are 'defenders of women')
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To: LadyShallott

My SBC has been moving slowly toward this goal for several years. I believe that in the next couple of years that we are going to step out and open a private school.


6 posted on 06/02/2004 7:26:58 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: LadyShallott

Homeschooling is not for everyone but I support the idea. I think that it would be a good thing if SBC threw it's weight behind voucher programs as well.


7 posted on 06/02/2004 7:34:34 AM PDT by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: LadyShallott; WKB

SBC bump and ping!!


8 posted on 06/02/2004 7:48:57 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (President Bush is a mensch in cowboy boots.)
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To: LadyShallott
The issue needs to be continually elevated in public discourse.

While my wife and I would probably not send our children to a SBC run school, they are on a much better track than what the gov't provides.

It's a shame it has come to this point, really. Seems I can remember the day not too long ago when "God" and "Christmas" were not bad words....

9 posted on 06/02/2004 7:51:56 AM PDT by Sam's Army (Hang up and drive, dammit!)
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To: kjam22
"Just as it would be foolish for a warrior to give his arrows to his enemies," the proposed resolution argues bluntly, "it is foolish for Christians to give their children to be trained in schools run by the enemies of God."

I haven't seen the phrase for awhile, maybe we are keeping it hush hush BUT the premise is that we defund the left!! Remember - Break their backs, take back the money, ruin their godless institutions, it is a revolution in a sense (long overdue) and a crucial one to say the least and the survival of not only our nation depends on it. The enemy will not give in to our desires and wants so we MUST do the only thing that is left to do! Dismantle it now by leaving it and breaking it's back. We need to boldly step out in faith and do it!!! Before it is to late!

Time to quit playing footsie w the enemy!!
10 posted on 06/02/2004 7:56:15 AM PDT by Esther Ruth (You shall love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, mind and soul!)
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To: Esther Ruth


It is bad enough for us to support godless schools with our tax money, which is coerced from us or we lose our homes and property, but we certainly don't have to have our children's warm bodies and receptive minds in those seats, giving the school state attendance funds as well. And the children are being indoctrinated to despise their Christian upbringing and what they are (hopefully) taught at church besides. The SBC is right to ask this question of Christian parents: Is this the best stewardship of your child's soul and your money?


11 posted on 06/02/2004 8:20:20 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: CharlieOK1
We moved to Jenks mainly because it has probably the best school system in the state

Jenks?? Only if she is gonna play football! :)

12 posted on 06/02/2004 8:35:29 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22
:) I know you are kidding, but actually they have an educational system that rivals the private schools around here. Plus, she can play any sport or do any activity she could ever possibly want to do. I think they are even getting a girls hockey team going, not that I would let her play that.

I would love to send her to Holland Hall or Victory Christian, but financially those aren't options right now.

13 posted on 06/02/2004 8:49:54 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Funny how Vietnam vets are 'baby killers' and pro-aborts are 'defenders of women')
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To: All
Ah! great - the world is going to hell in a handbasket and here in Rome we are worried about how great the sports are in the puplick screwalls till you die, just as long as billy and suzzie can be involved in sports, soccer, football etc - talk about selling your soul to the devil!!!! We need to get our priorities straight right now folks!!!!!! What a waste of time, people giving their lives, sacrificing and folks won't commit to Christian education because of sports!!! Shame shame!!!
14 posted on 06/02/2004 9:01:08 AM PDT by Esther Ruth (You shall love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, mind and soul!)
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To: Esther Ruth

feel better?


15 posted on 06/02/2004 9:06:08 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Funny how Vietnam vets are 'baby killers' and pro-aborts are 'defenders of women')
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To: LadyShallott

read later


16 posted on 06/02/2004 9:15:31 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Esther Ruth
Listen, I guess I will take the time to respond to your spastic rant, even though I don't know you yet you feel obligated to tell me how to raise my child. You replied to 'All', yet it is obvious you were directing your attack at me personally.

Jenks has arguably the best public educational system in the state. There are Christian private schools around here, but they are either not affordable or do not offer the same quality of education. In addition, we are aware of how and what they teach and plan on being extremely involved in our daughter's education. If we decide we don't like what they are teaching, we will re-evaluate our decision at that time. We give our daughter a very strong foundation through our church, and there are plenty of people from our church that send their kids to this school. Christians are actually a very respected group of people in this community.

Plus, the schools do not bow down to politically correct crap that public schools in other cities may. They still pray at events, they still have Christmas celebrations.

I know you know this, but it is not very Christian to talk to everyone else about someone you have a problem with without talking to that person first. If you are going to say something rude about me, address it to me.

17 posted on 06/02/2004 9:29:00 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Funny how Vietnam vets are 'baby killers' and pro-aborts are 'defenders of women')
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To: CharlieOK1
I'll bet if your property taxes were cut in half (and they COULD be if public schools were abolished) you could afford a superb private education, or homeschooling with the assistance of good specialized tutors part of the time.

That's part of the message that needs to get out. Forget vouchers! Just cut all property taxes in half, and billions of dollars will be available for a good education for all children, including the poor.

18 posted on 06/02/2004 9:31:08 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: CharlieOK1
Plus, the schools do not bow down to politically correct crap that public schools in other cities may. They still pray at events, they still have Christmas celebrations.

There are several public school systems in Oklahoma that this can be said of.

Certainly not Oklahoma City public schools. But many suburban based ones (Jenks is a suburban one of Tulsa) still operate in similar manner as to what you have mentioned. The area's are typically highly republican in voter registration. They have a lot of parental influence, and conservative members of their elected school boards. I suppose someday the ACLU will come along and press things. But I think so far, Oklahoma is bible belt enough, and unde the radar enough in the big picture that we just ride along doing our thing.

19 posted on 06/02/2004 9:36:33 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22

I am originally from the OKC area. Out of curiousity, where do you live in OK, kjam?


20 posted on 06/02/2004 9:43:14 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Funny how Vietnam vets are 'baby killers' and pro-aborts are 'defenders of women')
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