If Jesus saw fit to forgive Peter after Peter denied Him three times, who are any of us to say whether or not this man has already lost his eternal life?
Posted on 05/31/2004 9:00:49 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
This isn't the first time the Church of Christ has had to deal with deniers.
A whole cult was formed in the 3rd century on the basis of saying Jesus could never forgive sincerely repentent Christians who denied their faith under threat of torture or death. These were called the Donatists--and they split the Church wide open.
The duties of the priests in sacraments were understood as very important in that day--and due to severe Roman persecution, various priests and bishops had denied Christ--but later, like Peter, repented, and were allowed to be priests and bishops again. The Donatist party however, said that they could never be forgiven, and therefore any sacrament (holy communion, baptism, etc.) they performed was invalid and ineffective.
This went on for generations....and whole regions could be traced back to repentant-denier's sacraments. (ie. Bishop RD baptized this town, along with its priest, then they baptized so many more...etc. etc....) The Donatists insisted--since the sacraments of certain regions could be traced back to ineffective sacraments of the RDs---those regions of the Church were not really valid Christians. Obviously this was a serious issue for the Church.
Finally, in the 5th Century, St. Augustine defeated the bitter Donatists with this simple logic. Grace for every Christian comes from Christ Himself--not through the good character of the priest. So while priests of course should be godly men, even if a priest was not godly, or not repentent from denying Christ, and unsaved, their sacraments are valid, since the grace they provide is Christ' not the priests.
Seeing as how Jesus forgave Peter's 3 direct denials, I for one cannot say God commands anyone who deny's Christ is forever lost. If they sincerly repent, the grace of God can even cover the sin of denial.
Telling Nazi's that htere are no Jews in my attic is very different then telling Arabs that I am not a Christian.
But then, you must not be a Christian, or else you'd understand.
She was also his half-sister, so when he told them she was his sister, he wasn't lying.
But the verses in Matthew came to my mind and others on this thread immediately after reading the headline.
I don't gather from the article that he " denied" christ. I read he said he was an Arab, and showed his friend's copy of the Koran. He did not blaspheme God or Jesus. He also LIVED to tell his tale to the world. There ain't nothing wrong with that, folks.
I am pretty sure, God will forgive him.
Given the situation, Lots of folks would have lied.
If Jesus saw fit to forgive Peter after Peter denied Him three times, who are any of us to say whether or not this man has already lost his eternal life?
Should a similar situation occur in my life, I hope that I'm armed at the time so I have the option of changing the subject.
From http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1987/87oct1.html
What, then, did Jesus mean in verses 32 and 33 when He said that He would confess before the Father those who confessed Him and deny before the Father those who denied Him? He meant simply that. At the place where disciples are to be judged, the Judgment Seat of Christ, Jesus will praise or confess before the Father those who consistently by their words and deeds confessed Him before men. However, disciples who failed to consistently confess Him before men by their words and deeds will find that He will deny him something before the Father. What? Rewards. He will deny faithless disciples treasure in heaven and/or the privilege of ruling with Him. (Cf. Luke 19:11-26; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 9:24-27; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Jn. 2:28.)
There is a verse which is conceptually parallel to this one, 2 Timothy 2:12. The verses on either side of it strongly assert eternal security. However, verse 12 shows that ruling with Christ is not guaranteed for every believer. If we endure in confessing Christ in our words and deeds, we will reign with Him. If we deny Him by our words and deeds, He will deny us that privilege. The context of 2 Timothy 2:12 makes it clear that what Jesus will deny faithless disciples is ruling with Him, not kingdom entrance. ( Cf. 2 Tim. 2:13 "If we are faithless, He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself.")
Here is a powerful passage. If I deny Christ by my words and deeds, He will deny me the opportunity to reign with Him. Confessing Christ may lead to persecution and loss now, but ultimately it leads to blessings and gain forever. Oh, how I long to please Him and have Him confess me before the Father! What a day of rejoicing that would be!
Really? When would He not make an exception?
It's not me who's "twisted."
He didn't deny Christ "before men". He denied Christ before one man. For all we know he professes his faith openly to the world.
That is my interpretation, others have their interpretations. The Bible is revealed Truth, but we all see it and understand it according to who we are and what we are. That is unavoidable. I don't think being quick to condemn others based on their interpretations shows greater commitment to the Truth.
Have a day.
In this case, you can lie and not sweat it. When under duress with your life at stake, lying to scum who want to kill you is good defense.
I think the presence of Christian Arabs is often overlooked by those of us in the West. Nominal or practicing, we need to remember there are Arabs who do not proclaim Islam as their religion.
The Orthodox church in the Middle East, for example, seems to be much more friendly to Arafat than they are to the Israeli government. Perhaps this is partially because of the number of Arabs in their congregations.
I do not believe, though, that the terrorists who are bombing women and children on "behalf of the Palestinian cause" are Christian...though I do think there are Christian Arabs among the Palestinian population.
What if you deny to save your life and that denial includes accepting the Mark? Or maybe the Mark is symbolic of any denial?
IOW, anyone who does not hold the EXACT same views as you isn't a Christian?
Yes, and Peter's example in this case was not presented as one for us to follow.
I don't know what I'd do in the same situation. As a Christian, I like to be aware of Jesus' teaching on the matter so that I can prepare myself if such an instance would occur in my life.
Elisabeth Elliot's husband was killed with a rain of Auca arrows. He said 'He is no fool if he should choose to give what he cannot keep to gain what he can never lose'. The Aucas later repented of their action and laid down their arms and murderous ways.
It is certainly the most difficult scenario on earth to face as a Christian.
I didn't so no such thing!
You go back and find out where I did! I never condemned anyone to hell. I was agreeing with DocRock that I, too, had read that verse in the Bible. You show me where I ever said that!
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