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To: 2banana; Cronos
What you say about the KKK (or even about the Nazis) is precisely what I'm trying to point out : the most heinous crimes are committed by people who disguise their earthly ambitions and personal prejudice behind religious or patriotic color.

The true message of religion is, in my own and humble opinion and as I see it, to give people and society a higher goal, and to reveal what's good within us. Christianity is not a religion of hatred, it is supposed to be a religion of love. Is it presently taught as such ? Yes, definitely. Was it always taught like that ? Sorry, but no.

I live in a city that, 400 years ago (not all that much when it comes to Christianity) the Protestants were sieging against loyalist Catholic troops. You go to La Rochelle, you'll see a city where Protestant and Catholics were quite physically at each other throats, and where killing children and burning churches were very commonplace. And it was a war between fellow Christians.

Is Islam taught as a religion of peace today ? No, certainly not, we have countless reports that indicate quite the contrary. Could it be taught as a religion of peace ? Yes it can - as it once was.
54 posted on 05/26/2004 6:47:09 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: Atlantic Friend
Yes it can - as it once was.

When? Where? In conquered lands where non-muslims were made to be slaves?

You would have a point if:

1. You could point out examples of islamic countries today that are full of peace and tolerance. But there are none. When islam takes over, non mulsims are brutally crushed. Turkey may be the best example except they ban islamic parties from running for or holding political office.

2. At no time in the history of islam has islam been "peaceful." Even its very beaconing was one of conquests and brutality.

I know it is hard to believe, but at one point in history, the countries of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Turkey and Iraq had large populations of Christians. These countries were peacefully converted to Christianity by word of mouth.

They were conquered by Muslim armies (along with all of North Africa and Spain) and forcibly converted to Islam by the sword (conversion or death).

The spread of Islam has always been an armed invasion.

Muslims were sometimes welcomed by the Christian population because those populations were considered heretics for their beliefs and under threat of death by the Catholic Church. But as time went on more and more restrictions were heaped on the "Dhimmis or non-muslims", and, although technically regarded as "People of the Book" and permitted to practiced their religion in private, unlike other faiths which were given the alternative of death or conversion, Dhimmis suffered cruel discrimination. They couldn't participate in government, they were forbidden to carry arms, they couldn't testify against a Muslim, the could be enslaved while a Muslim could not, they could not make improvements on the exterior of their churches or synagogues, they had to wear a distinguishing badge marking them as Dhimmis, they couldn't practice their religion in public, they were forbidden under pain of death from converting or attempting to convert Muslims, and were subjugated to the same periodic pograms Jews in Europe enjoyed.

In today's Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, other religions, even other forms of Islam, are simply and totally forbidden. So things have hardly improved.

65 posted on 05/26/2004 7:01:32 AM PDT by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Atlantic Friend
the most heinous crimes are committed by people who disguise their earthly ambitions and personal prejudice behind religious or patriotic color

True, that is what Mo did. And Mo created his own cult to create his empire.
71 posted on 05/26/2004 7:06:48 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Atlantic Friend
The true message of religion is, in my own and humble opinion and as I see it, to give people and society a higher goal, and to reveal what's good within us. Christianity is not a religion of hatred, it is supposed to be a religion of love. Is it presently taught as such ? Yes, definitely. Was it always taught like that ? Sorry, but no.

Religion is to bring us closer to God. You're right, Christianity is a religion of love. Was it always taught like that. YES.

Even during theCrusades when Christians were trying to save fellow Christianns from slammmies, was christianity taught as a religion of Hate? NO.

Don't falll for hte lies. Christianitry has always condemned violence.
75 posted on 05/26/2004 7:09:12 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Atlantic Friend
as it once was.

WHEN?????
76 posted on 05/26/2004 7:09:55 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Atlantic Friend
Arab clerics do fire and brimstone.
National Review, July 24, 2002 (Opinion)
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-freund072402.aspOff-site Link
By Michael Freund

I don't know what the weekly sermon sounds like in your local house of worship, but here is a sampling of what the Arab world was being told last Friday, July 19, from pulpits throughout the Middle East:

In a sermon carried live on official Syrian radio from the Anas Ibn-Malik mosque in Damascus, Sheikh Dr. Ziad al-Ayubi told his listeners, "O God, help our people in Palestine and the Golan. O God, annihilate the Zionists and make them destroy themselves."

A preacher appearing on Saudi Arabia's official TV1 network displayed broader ambitions, seeking to invoke Divine wrath not just against "the Zionists," but against all "infidels," i.e. Christians and Jews. "O God," he said, "support our brother holy warriors for your sake everywhere. O God, grant them victory in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, deal with the aggressor Jews and all aggressive infidels. O God, deal with them for they are within your power."
(...)

It would be easy to dismiss these frightful orations as the rantings of frustrated clergymen. But bear in mind that these weekly prayer sermons are broadcast on official, government-run stations in countries that are neither democratic nor free. The messages they convey are part and parcel of their government's overall propaganda strategy, and they are designed to shape and mold Arab public opinion.

The fact that Arab preachers, throughout the Arab world, are circulating such hatred so openly, is a sign not only of the antipathy they bear for both Christians and Jews, but also of the utter lack of concern they have over their messages being heard abroad.

Indeed, the quotations above all come from FBIS, the Foreign Broadcast Information Service<img src="../graphics/out4.gif" alt="Off-site Link" width="7" height="6" vspace="2" border="0, an arm of the U.S. government that monitors and translates media throughout the world. Propaganda officials in Syria or Saudi Arabia know full well that their regime's mouthpieces are being observed in Washington and elsewhere. Nevertheless, week in and week out, they continue to deliver fire-and-brimstone-style sermons against America, Israel, and the West.<br /> <br />

154 posted on 05/26/2004 10:45:34 AM PDT by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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