[Zionist Conspirator]

Oops. What does this mean for his position on Israel? There are some find pro-Israel Catholics (Oliver North comes to mind), but Catholicism does teach the classical "new Israel" ecclesiology. Of course, so do many Protestant churches, but in the latter appeals to the plain sense of Scripture (which is clearly Jewish and Zionist) always overrule everything else.

But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.

Has Mr. Giles ever been to an Eastern Orthodox service? A Coptic service? An Ethiopian service? An Assyrian service? An Armenian service (which to me is still the most beautiful despite their theology and hostility to Israel)? Roman Catholicism is not the only alternative to Protestantism; in fact, though the "denominations" are fewer, the same problem of multiple claimants of the mantle of the "original church" still exists in the ancient liturgical world.

Nevertheless, as one who searched for most of his life and spent six years in the Catholic Church himself, I wish Mr. Giles well. I just hope he doesn't allow them to warp his attitude towards Israel or destroy his belief in Biblical inerrancy. In fact, when he discovers Catholic hostility to the literal truth of the Bible, I hope he makes the right decision even if it means (as it did eventually for me) leaving chr*stianity altogether. There was a Bible long before there was a chr*stianity, and one must keep one's priorities straight.

[Zionist Conspirator]

And unfortunately, the Catholic Church is the number one promoter in chr*stendom of the blasphemous "documentary hypothesis" (it's even taught on the official Vatican web site). When he runs into that stuff I hope his instincts kick in. I tried to remain in the church and reject this nonsense, but I was eventually convinced that I was too rebellious and didn't belong. There are a few Catholics who accept Mosaic authorship, Biblical inerrancy, and creationism, but they are a distinct minority and they aren't going to get anywhere. The Protestant "revolt" filled the Catholic Church with such a revulsion of "private interpretation" that now the belief is that evolution is almost required to illustrate that the Bible doesn't mean what it seems to say.

[pgyanke]

In fact, when he discovers Catholic hostility to the literal truth of the Bible, I hope he makes the right decision even if it means (as it did eventually for me) leaving chr*stianity altogether.

Many people say they "were once Catholic" to bolster their opinions of the Church. However, you don't know Catholicism if you think the Church denies the authority of Scripture. Nothing in the Deposit of Faith or Sacred Tradition contradicts Scripture. Where Scripture is silent, They are not.

That's not to say that every priest and every bishop teaches inerrantly the true Catholic faith. I have encountered many who interpose their own opinions and present it as Church doctrine. Look to the real history of the faith and the doctrines which have not changed in 2000 years and you find a seamless fabric.

[pgyanke]

But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.

>>Has Mr. Giles ever been to an Eastern Orthodox service? A Coptic service? An Ethiopian service? An Assyrian service? An Armenian service (which to me is still the most beautiful despite their theology and hostility to Israel)?

My guess is that Mr Giles gave many reasons for his conversion and this is the only one that sounded "weak" enough to merit reporting. Yes, I believe a journalist would take that approach in reporting on a religious matter.

[Ann Archy]

You really know nothing about Catholicism. Catholics ARE pro-Israel.

[ladyinred]

I assume you mean that Catholics replace Israel with themselves as do some Protestants? I think that is what you were saying isn't it? I agree with you that Israel is still and always will be God's chosen land and people and that we who are believers are grafted in, not replacements.

[Desdemona]

In fact, when he discovers Catholic hostility to the literal truth of the Bible,

Pardon me? Who do you think closed the canon? A bunch of bishops who were Catholic, several of whom are the most important theologians and doctors of the church.

If you ever read church documents, they are generously peppered with quotes from scripture. Mass includes whole passages and readings from both testaments as well as a psalm. There is always a gospel reading.

Why people seem to think we have a problem with the bible I will never know.

[Cronos]

Roman Catholicism is not the only alternative to Protestantism; in fact, though the "denominations" are fewer, the same problem of multiple claimants of the mantle of the "original church" still exists in the ancient liturgical world.

The Catholic Armenian Church along with the Chaldean, Syrian and Mennonite churchs are in communion with the Church.

The main branch of the Eastern churchs is the Orthodox consisting of the churches of Constantinople, Greece, russia, etc.

The Nestorians or Chaldeans or Syrian churchs (in Syria, Iraq, Iran and India) these are the descendents of the church os Ctesiphon in Persia/Parthia that moved away from the Roman church because, well, they were under the rivals to the Roman Empire -- the Parthian Empire. So, the Parthians did encourage a church that was distinct from Rome (similar but not squite the same as what the Chinese are doing)

[Cronos]

The Nestorians were smashed by the Mongols under Timur E Lang. however, a large number then came into communion wiht the Western church and formed the Cataholic Chaldean church.have a Creed of their own, formed from an old Antiochene Creed, which does not contain any trace of the particular heresy from which their Church is named. In deed it is difficult to say how far any Nestorians now are conscious of the particular teaching condemned by the Council of Ephesus, though they still honour Nestorius, Theodore of Mopsuestia, and other undoubted heretics as saints and doctors.

They use Syriac liturgically written in their own (Nestorian) form of the alphabet. The patriarch, who now generally calls himself "Patriarch of the East", resides at Kochanes, a remote valley of the Kurdish mountains by the Zab, on the frontier between Persia and Turkey

In any ways this most remote Church stands alone; it has kept a number of curious and archaic customs (such as the perpetual abstinence of the patriarch, etc.) that separate it from other Eastern Churches almost as much as from those of the West

[Cronos]

The Copts are monophysites. Though, to be honest, most of those theological misunderstandings seem minor now.

The Copts form the Church of Egypt. Monophysitism was in a special sense the national religion of Egypt. As an extreme opposition to Nestorianism, the Egyptians believed it to be the faith of their hero St. Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444). His successor, Dioscurus (444-55), was deposed and excommunicated by the Council of Calcedon (451). From his time the Monophysite party gained ground very quickly among the native population, so that soon it became an expression of their national feeling against the Imperial (Melchite, or Melkite) garrison and government officials. Afterwards, at the Moslem invasion (641), the opposition was so strong that the native Egyptians threw in their lot with the conquerors against the Greeks

[Cronos]

The Ethiopian is also Monophysite.

Then these is the Syrian Church, the church of Malabar (or MarThomites) in India -- converted by St. Thomas the Apostle.

The Armenian is also Monophysite but not in communion with the Copts and Syrians or Ethiopians. It IS a national church mostly. Again it was separated from the Western church more for political reasons -- the Roman church was in the West, the Eastern under the byzantines and then the Ottomans, the Copts under Mustlims, the Armenians under the Armenian Empire, the Chaldeans under the PArthians.

[Cronos]

There was a Bible long before there was a chr*stianity, and one must keep one's priorities straight.

Huh?? Christianity: spread by the Apostles. St. Paul wrote a lot of the New Testament. how do you make that statement?