Posted on 05/24/2004 6:15:27 AM PDT by chimera
It's tough to find anyone here who does not depise Taft
When the print and broadcast media drumbeat the failures in Iraq -
as opposed to the overall purpose of eradicating the "evil" there,
and by which military action by primarily the English speaking countries is the instrument to achieve that end,
and since it is this nation's overall purpose to secure our and Iraq's positive self interests in the long run,
this same media with their negative sell of that aim definitely undermine it.
Why?
What is wrong with that picture?
America is a quitter.
Americans are nurtured by sound bites of news.....
America no longer lives up to her commitments as promised.....
American's believe in polls rather than the truth...politicians would rather get the VOTE than stand by their word.....
The Mid-eastern countries fill our news daily with the failure of the Iraqi war but the news of new freedoms, new infrastructure in the cities of that country...news of hospitals and schools, business' regaining old ground with new freedoms is getting out and...this is what is not wanted in that part of the world by other dictators, princes and kings.
Stay the course as promised America! After June 30, most positions of government will be directed by Iraq, they want us there to help with maintaining that victory - and Victory it is! Those that will continue to undermine the success of the Iraqi people still need the coalition's help in the coming months. Bear in mind that France, Germany, Saudi Arabia and Russia for starters, don't want this "democratic" freedom for that part of the world - they want the old games like FOOD FOR OIL" where the powers that Be get all the money and riches.
Damn the Polls! Stay the course - we gave our word!
That's why it's past time for the Bush team to be out there each and every day between now and the election pushing their candidate as hard as they can. It's unfair, I know, but the only option they have is to spend the money they're taking in to counteract the political bias of the media as best they can. And none of this "wait until later" crap, because later will be too late. We've waited until later and the result has been that Bush's approval ratings are in danger of breaking into the high thirty percentile. We can't afford to wait any longer, or just wish and hope and pray that Kerry implodes (he may or may not, but we can't assume he will), or wish and hope and pray that "something good" happens for Bush (although that may be our final option if current trends continue).
And you point is?
What is there to "spin" and "flame", as you put it?
Of course the American people in general, and not just in Ohio, have no recent history of "spine", and critical thought. They (we), are soft, and have no concept of time and contextual thought. We adore instant gradification, destroying reputations, and love conspiracies and gossip.
We love Oprah, the 1/2 sitcom, love guilt, love pc behavior, we hate shame, love victimhood, and hate achievement.
Ohioians are just as susceptible, and easily influenced by, our elite, educators, the NY media and Hollywood, as are most Americans. And as in the ME, human beings can be capable of permitting propaganda to rule their opinions.
We want it all to just "go away", we want to be comfortable again, we want someone to blame and punish.
We will vote for a Kerry/UN/Soros/Kennedy ticket and all will be well.
Because our only information sources, the "media", for those 4 years he is in office, will tell us that everything is "OK".
As they have for the last two decades of the Islamic cults roaming the globe, murdering with impunity. And, as they did with Clinton.
As a Columbus resident for many decades..I know the Dispatch is just a liberal rag.. this poll .. only serves thier biased Rat agenda... I could produce a poll that shows the opposite..
Well, in this part of Ohio (SE) the war in Iraq isn't really hurting Bush so much as is the economy and job prospects, promotions, raises and the like. People here have strong support for the troops and want us to kick ass in Iraq and then get the hell out and devote more time and effort to improving employment, manufacturing and sales. The new overtime plan brought out by Bush was really a dumb move: it has pissed off workers around here big time. Aside from that, Bush's PR is just plain absent.
I voted for Bush in 2000. I will vote for him again in 2004. But if he can't win in Ohio, I believe he'll lose the general election. Right now, things aren't looking all that great for him. As conservatives, optimists notwithstanding, we had better steel ourselves for the possible outcome, and what to do afterwards.
However, Chimera wrote something _else_ above that I find more interesting, that being, "people are increasingly doubtful about the purpose and outcome of the Iraq situation".
Iraq is but a "stepping stone" on a long journey of struggle. Do Americans really _believe_ that, once we are done in Iraq, that we are "done"?
This is to wonder if, perhaps, Americans in general, have any _idea_ of what kind of a struggle we are involved in, and how long it could last?
Of course, most Freepers are tuned into this reality, but the overwhelming majority of Americans are _not_. The country remains divided, possibly irreconciliably so. And, so divided, the so-called "War on Terrorism" (which we of this forum _know_ is a misnomer) cannot be won, and further, the _real_ war we're engaged in cannot be won, either.
If the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon were not enough to "solidify" Americans to the cause, pray tell, what kind of attack _would_?
Some speculate that it will take a nuclear or biological attack on our soil to re-create the national unity that will be necessary in order to prevail, in akin to the unity displayed by Americans in World War II.
But I sense that - even in the wake of a monstrous attack - as Americans, we may have become too divided, too weak, too "multicultural", to win a struggle that will require the sacrifices, hardship, near-universal military service, and perseverance on a scale that will _surpass_ those sacrifices made by the generations that triumphed in 1945.
Simply stated, America as a nation and a culture, may have lost its sense of self-preservation, our will to fight.
I don't write this lightly. Indeed, we have the greatest military power ever created in history, staffed by skilled, capable, and dedicated soldiers.
But although armies may win battles, they cannot overcome cultural struggles and changes of national heart. Do we still have the collective heart to win? Do we have the [national] collective identity to comprehend and define the struggle ahead of us?
At this point, I would say no. Not yet.
In another thread a few weeks back, Freeper Jim Noble posted that, in his view, it would take "100 Divisions" of miltary might to win the coming struggle. Others frothed at the notion, but I think he is right - if nothing more, by sensing the magnitude of the threat we (and the rest of the West) face.
It will take an America that is willing to offer - by conscription if need be - 100 Divisions, along with the treasure and personal sacrifices, to win the War with Islam. Before it's over, it will touch every American family in the ways that WW2 did: the rationing, the lost family members, those who returned wounded.
It may take 50 years of protracted struggle to bring Islam to heel; it could take more.
Is America ready for this? Certainly _not_ the America that caves with the publication of some staged photos from an Iraqi prison.
It was a completely different nation that won World War II. That "America" no longer _exists_.
What will it take to unify the America that exists _now_, to instill within us the will to win?
Cheers!
- John
It is taken too long. Next month we will remember D-day offense with overwhelming force. Less than a year later the war was over against a forminable force. This war we have the best troops and the best weapons the world has ever know. One later later it is far from over in Iraq, troops are still dying, AQ is undefeated and the terror alert flag still waves. Put the troops in and win this thing.
No one I talk to even mentions 9/11 anymore. It's been buried down the memory hole. When it is mentioned, it comes out as a negative for Bush because of this kangaroo "9-11 Commission". What is mentioned is Iraq and how "bad" that is, high gasoline prices, and job losses or fear thereof. On all of these, Bush ends up the loser.
I mentioned in a related thread about the "Prefect Storm" that seems to be forming. We've got bad news from Iraq, the 9-11 Commission Grandstanding Show, a spike in gasoline prices at the worst possible time, and the ongoing issues in the industrial states with job losses and offshoring/outsourcing. It's probably enough to swamp any candidate who is running for reelection.
Can it turn around? Sure. The trouble is time. Too many on FR and elsewhere have bought into the "wait until Labor Day when the campaign really starts", or "wait until after the convention" bill of goods. Trouble is, it takes time for good news to filter down into the somewhat dull-witted perceptions of many of the sheeple. If gasoline prices plummet starting in about September or so, all people will remember are the bills they're getting from the gasoline card companies from August. If unemployment tumbles by a few hundred thousand in October, it will be several months after the election for the impact of that to be felt generally. If we wait until Labor Day (or whenever), you've got two months to turn around a situation that has brought about approval ratings in the low forty percent. Not a likely prospect.
In general, I agree. I don't see where Bush actions are going to make a difference. Events will persuade people. The numbers we're seeing are mostly a week or more old and reflect bad news that is, now, old news. Rasmussen has picked up a rebound for Bush the last few days and the Kerry lead has eroded. There are 5 months for the economy to improve, for more (two found last week) WMDs to be found, and for things to settle further in Iraq (it is now 7 days since the last US casualty).
All of which matters little if we don't GOTV. Freepers must volunteer, and not just in their hometown.
This is out of Bush's hands, and has been for a long time.
He knew the risk's when he decided to go to Iraq, and he did it anyway. He could have easily fought the WOT in Afganistan, and coddled the public to re-election. And OBL would still have remained hidden. Bush rightfully believed that Saddam and sons, their billions for WMD, the capability, the science, and the support and funding of the Islamic cults was a grave danger to the US.
Saddam was a man until a year ago affected every fear of war, every calculation of the future of the ME.
His goal has been reached. And he knows the impossiblity of beating the "contrarians" in the press. And I'm sure he knows the impossibility of trying to combat the media during a war, when events on the ground rule, and "positive PR" is impossible.
I'm sure he is grateful we did not have global media during WWII, or saboteurs in the opposition party, or we surely would have lost.
Under Reagan, we did not have the amount of global and blatant US propaganda we have now, nor did we have the communication for the slander of a US President. And 20 yrs after Reagan we have a much more un-educated public and press, who thrive on utopia, are VERY comfortable, and live in a perpetual hyterical drama.
In the 2000 election Bush once said off-handedly to a reporter, "I don't believe in psycho-babble".
He must know that most of the American public DO believe in that babble, and most are being medicated for it.
There is only so much a President can do with a fickle pubic who believes the US is nothing more than a member of the "global community", with a seat at the UN.
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