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New Global Warming Study Ignites Heated Debate
Space Daily ^ | 05/11/2004 | Dan Whipple

Posted on 05/14/2004 10:12:16 AM PDT by cogitator

Global Warming's Latest Hot Topic Causes Yet More Nasty Arguments

Climate change research is a giant scientific sandbox. The subject is so complex, the data sources spread across so many disciplines, and the analytical tools so new and powerful that just about any scientist can stick in his shovel someplace and come up with a new -- and probably plausible -- result.

There even remains -- in the United States, at least -- controversy over whether global temperatures are rising and, if so, how much.

A recent paper in the British journal Nature claims to have found a way out of at least one dilemma that has plagued climate research for years: the rise in temperatures in the lower atmosphere that is slower than the climate computer models have predicted, at least in relation to data on heating of the surface. This discrepancy has been the linchpin of the arguments by climate skeptics.

A University of of Washington team led by atmospheric researcher Qiang Fu re-analyzed the satellite data underlying the conclusion about the lower atmosphere. After applying some compensating factors, they now argue that temperature trends in the lower atmosphere are, in fact, consistent with the trends on the surface.

Microwave sounding units aboard polar-orbiting satellites run by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration measure radiation emitted at different frequencies and provide temperature and other data for different layers of the atmosphere.

Channel two on those satellites measures tropospheric temperatures, the layer from the surface to about 7.5 miles up, while channel four measures temperatures in the stratosphere -- above 7.5 miles.

One well-known -- albeit counterintuitive -- greenhouse effect is the cooling of the stratosphere. Fu and his team found about one-fifth of the signal from the troposphere on channel two actually was coming from the stratospheric cooling. So they used statistical methods to subtract this phenomenon from the record and recalculated the warming rate of the troposphere.

The team concluded the troposphere was warming at the rate of about 0.2 degrees Celsius (nearly 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit) per decade, a result that fits almost perfectly with the predictions of the climate models.

"If the models agree with what has happened in the real world, that gives them more credence," said Kevin Trenberth, head of global climate analysis for the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder. "The main cry of the skeptics is that the models don't agree with the tropospheric temperature change. What (the journal article) suggests is that the record agrees extremely well in the troposphere."

The finding seems to invalidate the data presented by researchers such as a group at the University of Alabama, Huntsville, one of the originators of the tropospheric anomaly.

"You'll hear an outcry from the skeptics," Trenberth told United Press International.

Indeed, John Christy, a member of the UAH team that compiled the tropospheric temperature record -- from the same satellite data that Fu and colleagues used -- said the University of Washington group subtracted out more cooling than exists and therefore their results are wrong.

Furthermore, Christy said, he and his colleagues previously had tried the method Fu used and found it did not work.

"In 1992 we published a means to eliminate the stratosphere," Christy told UPI. "We indicated in there that we had tried these multichannel methods, but that they were not suitable."

That is why, he said, his team used the single channel method.

"He can claim whatever he wants," Fu told UPI. "He never showed it in a paper. This method is very effective."

Christy responded that "there was no paper about it because, well, it didn't work. We went down a different road. It wasn't worth showing because it didn't work."

For the method used by Fu's team to be effective, Christy said, there has to be considerable overlap in the signals between satellite channels two and four.

"There is not enough overlap," he added. "There is not enough information in channel four to completely remove the stratospheric part of channel two."

In other words, there has to be enough cooling signal to subtract, and Fu and his colleagues subtracted more cooling than warranted by the data, Christy said.

"I think what bothers me at this point is the lack of attention given to all of the work we did in the early 1990s recognizing that methods such as Fu's were inappropriate," Christy continued. "Everyone knows there is stratospheric influence in channel two, but Fu makes it out as if he discovered this. Our method works, and has also been verified in a large number of published papers by investigators independent of ourselves."

Christy and his colleagues are not entirely entirely skeptical about warming. Their data do find a mean warming trend of 0.08 degrees C per decade. But the 0.2 degrees C per decade from Fu's team -- and from most climate models -- is about 1.5 times higher, which amounts to a considerable difference.

"This kind of mistake would not get published with adequate peer review of manuscripts submitted for publication," said Roy Spencer, principal research scientist at UAH on his climate change Web site. "But in recent years, a curious thing has happened. The popular science magazines, Science and Nature, have seemingly stopped sending John Christy and me papers whose conclusions differ from our satellite data analysis. This is in spite of the fact that we are (arguably) the most qualified people in the field to review them."

NCAR's Trenberth, one of the reviewers of the Fu paper, said, "I think the protests are silly ... I think this is the cleanest indication of what is actually happening in the troposphere from the standpoint of the satellite record."

So the argument continues.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atmosphere; climate; climatechange; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; satellites; warming
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I love the smell of peer-review in the morning.
1 posted on 05/14/2004 10:12:19 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

I have noted for years that it is hotter in the summer than it is in the winter. How do we explain that?


2 posted on 05/14/2004 10:19:34 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Proudly not proofreading since Jan 1954.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I have noted for years that it is hotter in the summer than it is in the winter. How do we explain that?

Better have that assertion peer reviewed before you start making any more unsubstantiated claims...
3 posted on 05/14/2004 10:27:55 AM PDT by G L Tirebiter
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To: G L Tirebiter

Sorry!


4 posted on 05/14/2004 10:31:58 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Proudly not proofreading since Jan 1954.)
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To: cogitator; *Global Warming Hoax

So who was funding the Kung Fu research?

Sounds suspect to me.


5 posted on 05/14/2004 10:32:55 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: cogitator
After applying some compensating factors

I looked at Herbert Hoover's administration, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff bill and a few other factors, and I came to the conclusion that between 1929 and 1934 (and possibly for anumber of years beyond that) the US would see the strongest economy in its history.

Unfortunately, the data at my disposal did not seem to correspond with my theory. But Voila! I applied some compansating factors, and I can now say that the Great Depression was the time at which the wealth and economic power of the US grew the fastest!!!

6 posted on 05/14/2004 10:39:36 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (You can see it coming like a train on a track.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
compensating factors..... :-)

In college, we called this RAD. (Rectally Acquired Data)

7 posted on 05/14/2004 10:49:13 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I have noted for years that it is hotter in the summer than it is in the winter. How do we explain that?

Simple. All those air conditioners and the power generated to run them produce heat. Otherwise winter and summer would be just alike.

John Kerry served in Vietnam!*

8 posted on 05/14/2004 10:50:09 AM PDT by catpuppy (*little known fact)
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To: catpuppy

That is a good explanation.

Kerry was in Nam? Which side?


9 posted on 05/14/2004 10:55:29 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Proudly not proofreading since Jan 1954.)
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To: cogitator
HOLD EVERYTHING...

I have figured out what this global warming thing is all about...

a) Scientists have become too plentiful...like lawyers. Surplus lawyers chase ambulances, surplus scientists chase global warming;

b) These "surplus" scientists are in a quandry about WHO will be the first to accurately forcast...doomsday. [Sorry, the Bible already did that].

c) THESE SURPLUS SCIENTISTS WILL HAVE TO GIVE UP THEIR MEATY GOVERNMENT GRANTS if they can't produce SOMETHING!!!!

d) they were ignored as children...
10 posted on 05/14/2004 10:56:57 AM PDT by FrankR
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To: FrankR

errrrrr, c)?


11 posted on 05/14/2004 10:58:19 AM PDT by wbill
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To: cogitator
"I think what bothers me at this point is the lack of attention given to all of the work we did in the early 1990s recognizing that methods such as Fu's were inappropriate," Christy continued. "Everyone knows there is stratospheric influence in channel two, but Fu makes it out as if he discovered this. Our method works, and has also been verified in a large number of published papers by investigators independent of ourselves."

[...] "This kind of mistake would not get published with adequate peer review of manuscripts submitted for publication," said Roy Spencer, principal research scientist at UAH on his climate change Web site. "But in recent years, a curious thing has happened. The popular science magazines, Science and Nature, have seemingly stopped sending John Christy and me papers whose conclusions differ from our satellite data analysis. This is in spite of the fact that we are (arguably) the most qualified people in the field to review them."

Eco-kooks cooking the books. What else is new?

12 posted on 05/14/2004 11:05:27 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I have noted for years that it is hotter in the summer than it is in the winter...

Not only that, but the days are longer in the summer because the heat makes 'em expand!

13 posted on 05/14/2004 11:06:06 AM PDT by talleyman (E=mc2 (before taxes))
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To: Know your rights

That would make a great N.Y. Post-style headline: Kooks Cook Books.


14 posted on 05/14/2004 11:06:23 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
After applying some compensating factors

The toxicity of the pharmaceudicals I make was too high, so I applied some compensating factors in my paperwork and sent it off for clinical trials.....the defendent pleads "not guilty" your Honor.

15 posted on 05/14/2004 11:10:32 AM PDT by ElectricStrawberry (27th Infantry Regiment...cut in half during the Clinton years....Nec Aspera Terrent!!!)
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To: cogitator

I love the smell of peer-review in the morning.

Smells something like burnt cowhide, when the rebuttal starts in.

Synopsis of John Christy's comments regarding the the Fu et.al. Nature article,

 

http://www.techcentralstation.com/050504H.html

When Is Global Warming Really a Cooling?
 
By Roy Spencer  Published   05/05/2004 
 

16 posted on 05/14/2004 11:14:11 AM PDT by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
Kerry was in Nam? Which side?

I don't think he knew ... or cared.

John Kerry is strong on defense* ... of himself

17 posted on 05/14/2004 11:15:51 AM PDT by catpuppy (*little known fact)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I have noted for years that it is hotter in the summer than it is in the winter. How do we explain that?

Increased insolation. Next?

18 posted on 05/14/2004 11:17:07 AM PDT by cogitator
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: talleyman

You are a wealth of information. Are you a scientist? Are the nights shorter as well?


20 posted on 05/14/2004 11:23:35 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Proudly not proofreading since Jan 1954.)
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