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Getting a Grip on the Iraqi Prison Scandal
NewsMax ^ | Saturday, May. 8, 2004 | With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

Posted on 05/08/2004 12:17:34 PM PDT by Kaslin

America's self-destructive hysteria over the Iraqi prison abuse scandal reached a fevered pitch on Friday with two finger-pointing sets of hearings on Capitol Hill.

But rather than calm the waters, the White House has only made matters worse. President Bush's orgy of apologies and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's offer to pay reparations to injured Iraqis is likely to increase, not minimize, contempt for America in Arab capitals.

Particularly offensive was the president's personal apology to Jordan's King Abdullah, whose government only days before managed to extract confessions from several al Qaida terrorists who had planned to kill 80,000 with a chemical bomb attack.

No one knows the precise methods the Jordanians used to obtain those confessions, but it's a fair bet they didn't treat their terrorist suspects to a reading of the Geneva Convention.

Needless to say, the specter of American leaders groveling before feckless allies and even despots has brought delight to the likes of Al Jazeera and it's terrorist-sympathizing readers throughout the Middle East. Not to mention delivering a gut-punch to the morale of U.S. troops currently risking their lives in Iraq, which is precisely what America's enemies at home and abroad were hoping for.

It's long past time for the U.S. to get a grip - and realize that we're in the fight of our lives with people who viciously murdered 3,000 of our neighbors in the heart of America's cultural and financial capital.

If the U.S. is serious about winning, it can't collapse into a convulsion of self doubt and recrimination every time a probable terrorist claims he was mistreated by his U.S. captors.

Instead of apologizing for the actions of troops who have been dispatched to a Middle Eastern hellhole half-a-world-away to keep the wolf from our door, the Bush administration should get off the defensive and begin to put this over-hyped episode in perspective.

A few points should be emphasized:

* The overwhelming majority of inmates at the Abu Ghriab prison were suspected of having participated in or having knowledge of attacks against U.S. soldiers. Very few of the prisoners were common street criminals.

* The photographs of prisoners being abused were taken at a cellblock known as "The Hard Site," where the worst and most dangerous were being detained.

* To date, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the prisoners depicted in humiliating photos suffered anything more than embarrassment.

* At least two of the abused prisoners have embarked on a whirlwind tour of media interviews. And one even says he'd like to come to live in the homeland of his "torturers," the good old USA.

* None of the photos released to the media so far show anything like what has been alleged in anti-Bush administration media reports, which have ballyhooed allegations of forcible sodomy and even murder with little evidence to back the claims up.

* The murder charges: Two allegations of murder have been reported so far. The first is apparently based on an incident detailed in the Taguba report, which chronicles a prison riot during which suspected terrorists hurled rocks at U.S. military guards.

One soldier drew his weapon and fired in what appears to be an act of self defense, killing a suspected terrorist inmate. The soldier was charged with using excessive force and was dismissed with what was described in press accounts as "a less than honorable discharge."

* The other charge of murder refers to an Iraqi detainee who reportedly died after being grilled by a CIA interrogator. No further details of this case have been made public, including what type of intelligence the suspect was believed to be withholding or whether there was any provocation.

* The Taguba report also details several prison uprisings by suspected terrorists, some of whom had obtained weapons from Iraqi guards recruited by U.S. authorities. U.S. guards were repeatedly injured in these altercations, with at least one shootout in a jail cell reported. [Under these circumstances, humiliation and intimidation tactics might have been employed to keep suspected terrorist inmates too disoriented and demoralized to mount more prison attacks]

* It's worth reminding Americans about the case of Col. Alan West, who foiled a terrorist attack against his unit by extracting critical intelligence from an Iraqi detainee by firing his weapon into the air during an interrogation. Because Col. West exercised the good judgment to bend the rules of the Geneva Convention, countless U.S. soldiers in his unit - not to mention the Iraqi detainee - are alive today.

* It's also worth reminding Americans about the circumstances of the death of CIA interrogator Johnny 'Mike' Spann, the first casualty in the U.S.'s counterattack in the war on terror. Spann was killed when al Qaida prisoners jumped him and his partner during an interrogation session in Afghanistan.

* The only rape reported in any detail so far was allegedly committed by an Iraqi jail guard at Abu Ghraib who was recruited as part of the Iraqicization of the occupation. According to NBC's Jim Miklasewski, this Iraqi guard may have raped several female prisoners and perhaps even a young male detainee.

* The Taguba report includes an allegation of sodomy with a broomstick. This, along with most of the rest of the more lurid allegations being touted as gospel by the big media, is in fact based on the account of a suspected terrorist detainee. To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime.

One wonders what prison inmates in America - or anywhere else for that matter - would say about their jailers if asked if they'd been abused.

* For some of the more partisan Democrats currently calling for Rumsfeld's head, the Bush administration would do well to remind the country that more innocents died at Waco than at Abu Ghriab - and nobody from the Clinton administration resigned back then. In fact, there was hardly any outrage whatsoever over what remains the worst law enforcement debacle in U.S. history.

The most problematic allegation by far is that GIs charged with committing the abuse were ordered to do so by military intelligence to "soften-up" detainees in advance of interrogations.

Senior U.S. officials have so far characterized the abuse as the errant actions of a few miscreant GIs - and no less a military booster than Col. Oliver North said Friday that he'd be "shocked" if military intelligence countenanced, let alone ordered, the abuse. Nevertheless, there are too many sources for this charge to dismiss it out of hand.

And if the abuse was indeed committed as part of a "softening-up" intelligence gathering process, the White House needs to confirm the facts and get the truth out as soon as possible.

Any delay will only fuel later charges of cover-up. Credible allegations that higher-ups were trying to pin blame for the scandal on grunts link Lynndie England and Charles Graner could ultimately cost President Bush critical support within the military's rank and file.

And, in fact, if prisoners were mistreated in a way that left no lasting physical injury in a bid to gain crucial intelligence and save American lives, President Bush, the military and America as a whole owes no one any apologies.

If explained properly, it's a fair bet that most Americans would accept the proposition that after 9/11, a new set of rules apply. If humiliating and intimidating suspected terrorists is what it takes to limit the number of military families who have to suffer through the horrifying news that their son and daughter has been killed in action, then so be it.

No one is countenancing a rerun of the Bataan Death March - nor, it should be noted - anything close to the way Saddam ran Abu Ghriab. In fact, most of those who now pretend to be horrified over the Iraqi prison scandal expressed not one whit of outrage over Saddam's genocide.

Meanwhile, Americans need to understand that they will not win the war on terror by playing pattycake with those who know what the terrorists' next move is.

In fact, the real atrocity would be if U.S. soldiers who have put their own lives on the line are placed at even greater risk in the name guaranteeing the human rights of folks whose stated aim is to kill tens of thousands of American civilians by any means possible.

If the American people are not prepared to do everything possible to foil future attacks against our soldiers in the field, then the troops should be withdrawn as quickly as possible.

Then, having abandoned the war on terror abroad, Americans can prepare to face the consequences - the inevitable next 9/11 attack right here in our own backyard.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iraq; iraqi; iraqipow; prisoners
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I think this is right to the point
1 posted on 05/08/2004 12:17:36 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
truth bump
2 posted on 05/08/2004 12:25:45 PM PDT by John Lenin
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To: Kaslin
Time to move on and win the war. The fact that the Left thinks this is the horse they will ride to victory shows how desperate they truly are.
3 posted on 05/08/2004 12:29:59 PM PDT by TheOldRepublic
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To: Kaslin
Yep, me too. I don't know the reason for Bush's apology; but the media seems to be attacking it the way they attacked our sodliers. There is more to this than we know, and more to his "apology" than we know, I think.
I still wholeheartedly support Bush and his admin, in spite of what I think may be in error. He has shown that he knows more than the media relays, know more than me...
4 posted on 05/08/2004 12:30:37 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Kaslin
A dose of common sense.
5 posted on 05/08/2004 12:30:51 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: TheOldRepublic
.


TheOldRepublic,


So far ... the Bush Administration has done a fine job protecting the Nation and securing the Middle East against "foreign" enemies.


The Democrats and the Media will surely fall into the McGovern-Carter-Clinton fallacy trap of "beating a dead horse" several times over ... regarding the "Prison Abuse Scandal".


EVERYONE knows that the Democrats-Media AREN'T going after accountability and apologies from those primarily responsible for this fiasco: THE FEMALE LT. GENERAL actually in charge of the prison.


The American people aren't stupid.

The "one" APOLOGY that peculiarly HASN'T been DEMANDED by the Liberal Media is the Chieft Architect of the 9-11 Fiasco: WILHELM AND MADAM CLINTON.




I'm quite content to watch the Democrats and Liberal Media make total asses of themselves in front of the American people ... it only serves to solidify our admiration of President Bush ...



Patton@Bastogne



.
6 posted on 05/08/2004 12:36:12 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (John "Heinz" Kerry won't be the Nov-2004 Democratic Presidential Nominee)
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To: Kaslin
But rather than calm the waters, the White House has only made matters worse. President Bush's orgy of apologies and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's offer to pay reparations to injured Iraqis is likely to increase, not minimize, contempt for America in Arab capitals.

I listened to most of the 2 hearings and yet missed that.

7 posted on 05/08/2004 12:37:22 PM PDT by malia (BUSH/CHENEY '04 NEVER FORGET!)
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To: malia
There was no orgy of apology, neither by the president nor by Donald Rumsfeld. All what the president said was that he was sorry and he said that to the King of Jordan. Seems to me if he had really apologized to the Iraqis he would have done that the day before when he did those two intervies with Alhurrah Television and Al Arabiya Television. Rumsfeld said something like they should be paid for damages, but the left wants them and their families paid reparations. Which is a big difference in my opinion
8 posted on 05/08/2004 12:50:15 PM PDT by Kaslin (N.O.B.B.F.P!!! No one but Bush for president)
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To: Kaslin
It's nothing more than scandalbation on the part of Bush-Hating news outlets.

There was certainly a crime....but no scandal.

9 posted on 05/08/2004 12:53:50 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Kaslin
Good points. Quit the groveling and get on with things. However, the perpetrators should be publicly court marshaled and serve stiff sentences for this humiliation. They broke their orders and the rules of common sense.
10 posted on 05/08/2004 12:54:55 PM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: TheOldRepublic
Exactly, it's not about the so-called scandal. the real reason is to get the president out of office
11 posted on 05/08/2004 12:55:20 PM PDT by Kaslin (N.O.B.B.F.P!!! No one but Bush for president)
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To: malia
I just happened to catch that part when Rumsfeld was talking. It was one of the senators that called it reparations. Rumsfeld corrected him and I think he called it "compensation". It was some word other than reparations.
12 posted on 05/08/2004 1:00:28 PM PDT by Shannon
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To: malia
Re: the "reparations", it was in his opening statement but he did not use the word "reparations". He had to make it more clear a couple of times in the questioning and he said, "I think the word I used was compensation (and hope that was the word I used) and that did not mean reparations".
13 posted on 05/08/2004 1:04:51 PM PDT by Thank You Rush
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To: Kaslin
I have doubts about NEWSMAX, but I will tell you one thing they are ON OUR SIDE and if ONE does believe that WESTERN CIVILIZATION is at stake then I think that what Barry Goldwater said, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" is in play here.
14 posted on 05/08/2004 1:13:23 PM PDT by PISANO (Our troops...... will NOT tire...will NOT falter.....and WILL NOT FAIL!!!)
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To: Kaslin
I read the Taguba report,that is available on the internet and I was surprised to find that a lot of what we have been hearing about, are allegations made by detainees and not yet, proven fact.

These are the following detainees who have made the accusations.The report felt that their statements had " clarity " and " supporting evidence provided by other witnesses " made their accusations credible.

Amjed Isail Waleed, Detainee # 151365

b. (U) Hiadar Saber Abed Miktub-Aboodi, Detainee # 13077

c. (U) Huessin Mohssein Al-Zayiadi, Detainee # 19446

d. (U) Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, Detainee # 151108

e. (U) Mohanded Juma Juma (sic), Detainee # 152307

f. (U) Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, Detainee # 150542

g. (U) Shalan Said Alsharoni, Detainee, # 150422

h. (U) Abd Alwhab Youss, Detainee # 150425

i. (U) Asad Hamza Hanfosh, Detainee # 152529

j. (U) Nori Samir Gunbar Al-Yasseri, Detainee # 7787

k. (U) Thaar Salman Dawod, Detainee # 150427

l. (U) Ameen Sa’eed Al-Sheikh, Detainee # 151362

(U) Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, Detainee # 18470

There is nothing in the report to indicate why these detainees were incarcerated, other than the prison held "hardened criminals."

A lot of the report details the overcrowded conditions, the logistical problems which compounded security and many command and procedural breakdowns.
In spite of that,most of the MPs acted appropriately during many prison riots, prison escapes and when assaulted by the detainees-many of whom were " hardened criminals. "

Here's some things from the Taguba Report, that no one talks about :

(U) 9 June 03- Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. ... Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs ....
after STRIKING A GUARD in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by ...
concluded that a detainee had acted up and HIT AN MP. After being subdued,
one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees,
which further escalated the riot.

The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds
to TO PROTECT THE LIFE OF THE COMPOUND MPs,
whereby 5 detainees were wounded.

(U) 12 June 03- ( Camp Cropper )Several detainees allegedly made their escape in the nighttime hours prior to 0300. Battalion search team recaptured detainee .. and detainee ..was shot and killed by a Soldier during the recapture process.
Contributing factors were overcrowding, poor lighting, and THE NATURE OF THE HARDENED CRIMINAL DETAINEES at that location.
It is of particular note that the command was informed at least 24 hours in advance of the upcoming escape attempt
and started doing amplified announcements in Arabic stating the camp rules.

The investigation pointed out that rules and guidelines were not posted in the camps in the detainees’ native languages.

13 June 03- .... At about 1600 the same day, 30-40 detainees RIOTED and PELTED THREE INTERIOR MPS WITH ROCKS.

ONE GUARD WAS INJURED and the tower guards fired lethal rounds at the rioters injuring 7 and killing 1 detainee.


(U) 24 November 03- Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment.
This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees,
and 9 INJURED US SOLDIERS.
investigation ...concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal forc
e was ineffective, ... the use of deadly force was authorized.

24 November 03- A detainee allegedly had a pistol in his cell and around 1830 an extraction team shot him with less than lethal and lethal rounds in the process of recovering the weapon.
investigation concluded that one of the detainees in tier 1A of the Hard Site had gotten a pistol and a couple of knives from an Iraqi Guard working in the encampment.

Immediately upon receipt of this information, an ad-hoc extraction team consisting of MP and MI personnel conducted what they called a routine cell search,
which resulted IN THE SHOOTING OF AN MP
and the detainee.
Contributing factors were a corrupt Iraqi Guard,...

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1030 in Compound 8 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib...
the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1120 in Compound 2 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib.
...MPs used two non-lethal shots to disperse the crowd, which was successful.

13 December 03- Approximately 30-40 detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1642 in Compound 3 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib compound
and the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

17 December 03-Several detainees allegedly ASSAULTED AN MP at 1459 inside the Ganci Encampment, Abu Ghraib (BCCF).

One of the allegations-please prepare yourselves, was that someone wrote " I'm a Rapist " on the leg of a detainee who had raped a 15 yr old.

15 posted on 05/08/2004 1:13:42 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Thank You Rush
And then only if any of those humiliated are found to be innocent of terrorism etc.

And I don't care how long it takes to separate the sheep from the goats - we're in a war! Damned if I'll tolerate blanket payoffs to the entire male population of Iraq.
16 posted on 05/08/2004 1:15:04 PM PDT by Let's Roll (Kerry is a self-confessed unindicted war criminal or ... a traitor to his country in a time of war)
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To: Kaslin
"It's long past time for the U.S. to get a grip - and realize that we're in the fight of our lives with people who viciously murdered 3,000 of our neighbors in the heart of America's cultural and financial capital.

If the U.S. is serious about winning, it can't collapse into a convulsion of self doubt and recrimination every time a probable terrorist claims he was mistreated by his U.S. captors.

Instead of apologizing for the actions of troops who have been dispatched to a Middle Eastern hellhole half-a-world-away to keep the wolf from our door, the Bush administration should get off the defensive and begin to put this over-hyped episode in perspective."

===

An EXCELLENT article. Best one I read.

I totally agree with the author.

I am glad someone had some courage and sense, putting things in perspective and pointing out what should be, but apparently isn't, obvious to everyone.

17 posted on 05/08/2004 1:16:02 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: malia
Rumsfeld did say he wants to pay compensation to the "abused" prisoners. One of the Senators said reparations, Rumsfeld corrected him, that he didn't mean reparations, but he did mean compensation.

I can see a large convoy of lawyers from the US already on their way to Iraq, to help the "poor abused terrorist prisoners" file claims against the "big, bad US".

I am a great supporter of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but I think this time, they got bad advice.

18 posted on 05/08/2004 1:18:45 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: Kaslin
Best NewsMax article ever. Wow did they hit it out of the park!
19 posted on 05/08/2004 1:24:41 PM PDT by ServesURight
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To: PISANO
I have doubts about NEWSMAX

The die-hard bots despise Newsmax because they're not afraid to criticize Bush.

Yet they cheered Newsmax when they were one of the few media outlets to take on Clinton.

20 posted on 05/08/2004 1:31:00 PM PDT by ServesURight
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