[Kaslin]

I think this is right to the point

[John Lenin]

truth bump

[TheOldRepublic]

Time to move on and win the war. The fact that the Left thinks this is the horse they will ride to victory shows how desperate they truly are.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Yep, me too. I don't know the reason for Bush's apology; but the media seems to be attacking it the way they attacked our sodliers. There is more to this than we know, and more to his "apology" than we know, I think.
I still wholeheartedly support Bush and his admin, in spite of what I think may be in error. He has shown that he knows more than the media relays, know more than me...

[Amerigomag]

A dose of common sense.

[malia]

But rather than calm the waters, the White House has only made matters worse. President Bush's orgy of apologies and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's offer to pay reparations to injured Iraqis is likely to increase, not minimize, contempt for America in Arab capitals.

I listened to most of the 2 hearings and yet missed that.

[Psycho_Bunny]

It's nothing more than scandalbation on the part of Bush-Hating news outlets.

There was certainly a crime....but no scandal.

[The Great RJ]

Good points. Quit the groveling and get on with things. However, the perpetrators should be publicly court marshaled and serve stiff sentences for this humiliation. They broke their orders and the rules of common sense.

[PISANO]

I have doubts about NEWSMAX, but I will tell you one thing they are ON OUR SIDE and if ONE does believe that WESTERN CIVILIZATION is at stake then I think that what Barry Goldwater said, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" is in play here.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

I read the Taguba report,that is available on the internet and I was surprised to find that a lot of what we have been hearing about, are allegations made by detainees and not yet, proven fact.

These are the following detainees who have made the accusations.The report felt that their statements had " clarity " and " supporting evidence provided by other witnesses " made their accusations credible.

Amjed Isail Waleed, Detainee # 151365

b. (U) Hiadar Saber Abed Miktub-Aboodi, Detainee # 13077

c. (U) Huessin Mohssein Al-Zayiadi, Detainee # 19446

d. (U) Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, Detainee # 151108

e. (U) Mohanded Juma Juma (sic), Detainee # 152307

f. (U) Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, Detainee # 150542

g. (U) Shalan Said Alsharoni, Detainee, # 150422

h. (U) Abd Alwhab Youss, Detainee # 150425

i. (U) Asad Hamza Hanfosh, Detainee # 152529

j. (U) Nori Samir Gunbar Al-Yasseri, Detainee # 7787

k. (U) Thaar Salman Dawod, Detainee # 150427

l. (U) Ameen Sa’eed Al-Sheikh, Detainee # 151362

(U) Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, Detainee # 18470

There is nothing in the report to indicate why these detainees were incarcerated, other than the prison held "hardened criminals."

A lot of the report details the overcrowded conditions, the logistical problems which compounded security and many command and procedural breakdowns.
In spite of that,most of the MPs acted appropriately during many prison riots, prison escapes and when assaulted by the detainees-many of whom were " hardened criminals. "

Here's some things from the Taguba Report, that no one talks about :

(U) 9 June 03- Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. ... Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs ....
after STRIKING A GUARD in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by ...
concluded that a detainee had acted up and HIT AN MP. After being subdued,
one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees,
which further escalated the riot.

The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds
to TO PROTECT THE LIFE OF THE COMPOUND MPs,
whereby 5 detainees were wounded.

(U) 12 June 03- ( Camp Cropper )Several detainees allegedly made their escape in the nighttime hours prior to 0300. Battalion search team recaptured detainee .. and detainee ..was shot and killed by a Soldier during the recapture process.
Contributing factors were overcrowding, poor lighting, and THE NATURE OF THE HARDENED CRIMINAL DETAINEES at that location.
It is of particular note that the command was informed at least 24 hours in advance of the upcoming escape attempt
and started doing amplified announcements in Arabic stating the camp rules.

The investigation pointed out that rules and guidelines were not posted in the camps in the detainees’ native languages.

13 June 03- .... At about 1600 the same day, 30-40 detainees RIOTED and PELTED THREE INTERIOR MPS WITH ROCKS.

ONE GUARD WAS INJURED and the tower guards fired lethal rounds at the rioters injuring 7 and killing 1 detainee.


(U) 24 November 03- Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment.
This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees,
and 9 INJURED US SOLDIERS.
investigation ...concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal forc
e was ineffective, ... the use of deadly force was authorized.

24 November 03- A detainee allegedly had a pistol in his cell and around 1830 an extraction team shot him with less than lethal and lethal rounds in the process of recovering the weapon.
investigation concluded that one of the detainees in tier 1A of the Hard Site had gotten a pistol and a couple of knives from an Iraqi Guard working in the encampment.

Immediately upon receipt of this information, an ad-hoc extraction team consisting of MP and MI personnel conducted what they called a routine cell search,
which resulted IN THE SHOOTING OF AN MP
and the detainee.
Contributing factors were a corrupt Iraqi Guard,...

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1030 in Compound 8 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib...
the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1120 in Compound 2 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib.
...MPs used two non-lethal shots to disperse the crowd, which was successful.

13 December 03- Approximately 30-40 detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1642 in Compound 3 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib compound
and the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

17 December 03-Several detainees allegedly ASSAULTED AN MP at 1459 inside the Ganci Encampment, Abu Ghraib (BCCF).

One of the allegations-please prepare yourselves, was that someone wrote " I'm a Rapist " on the leg of a detainee who had raped a 15 yr old.

[FairOpinion]

"It's long past time for the U.S. to get a grip - and realize that we're in the fight of our lives with people who viciously murdered 3,000 of our neighbors in the heart of America's cultural and financial capital.

If the U.S. is serious about winning, it can't collapse into a convulsion of self doubt and recrimination every time a probable terrorist claims he was mistreated by his U.S. captors.

Instead of apologizing for the actions of troops who have been dispatched to a Middle Eastern hellhole half-a-world-away to keep the wolf from our door, the Bush administration should get off the defensive and begin to put this over-hyped episode in perspective."

===

An EXCELLENT article. Best one I read.

I totally agree with the author.

I am glad someone had some courage and sense, putting things in perspective and pointing out what should be, but apparently isn't, obvious to everyone.

[ServesURight]

Best NewsMax article ever. Wow did they hit it out of the park!

[prairiebreeze]

I don't think the President and Rummy were necessarily apologizing to just the Arabs. They were apologizing to America and the coalition. They HAD to say something, IMO.

That said, now that they have I see no reason for further dwelling on the apologies aspect.

Prairie

[SuziQ]

No one is countenancing a rerun of the Bataan Death March - nor, it should be noted - anything close to the way Saddam ran Abu Ghriab. In fact, most of those who now pretend to be horrified over the Iraqi prison scandal expressed not one whit of outrage over Saddam's genocide.

Didn't the President make just this point in his remarks about it the other day? As for his apology, he didn't make it TO King Abdullah,. but a general "I'm sorry for the humiliation of the prisoners," to all Iraqis, especially given what little we really know about why all this happened.

[Barney Gumble]

I liked this article a lot. It summarized everything I was thinking. I was starting to wonder if I was evil in not-really feeling sorry for them, and not believing Bush should go on his whirlwin of apologies. (though orgy of apolgies was a better phrase)

1. They were probably bad bad men. They were only humilated. Who knows what they were doing before they got captured. If they had been arrested after planning an attack to kill civilians, would everyone feel so bad?

2. The army was already investigating it. I don't know why Bush didn't say something like, "well we were concerned, that's why there was an internal report done by the Army, with consequences to follow."