[Cannoneer No. 4]

Read this article from AM General's local paper.

Politicians and parents forcing the Army to buy specific vehicles from sole source contractors.

I can't help but wonder what the Army had planned to buy with the money they were forced to spend on unprogrammed Up Armored Humvees. No doubt the Army will be criticized in years to come for not buying whatever it was.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Congratulations.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Up Armored Humvee ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Next rotation of troops will get to Iraq in more heavily armored vehicles

By Lisa Burgess, Stars and Stripes European edition, Thursday, May 6, 2004

ARLINGTON, Va. — As security continues to deteriorate in Iraq, U.S. military commanders have decided that incoming units should bring more heavy armored vehicles, instead of the Humvees.

The third rotation of troops into Iraq, which will begin this fall, “will come in a heavier formation,” Lt. Gen. Richard A. Cody, the Army’s deputy chief of staff for plans, told reporters Tuesday.

And with Operation Iraqi Freedom 3 troops bringing more of their own armored vehicles, the Army will be able to transfer some of the up-armored Humvees from outgoing troops and give them to combat support units, which aren’t typically equipped with the sturdier vehicles, Cody said.

Pentagon officials have yet to say which active Army units will be tapped for Operation Iraqi Freedom 3, but three National Guard brigades have already been alerted for the deployment: the 256th from Louisiana, the 116th from Idaho, and the 278th from Tennessee.

Each of the National Guard brigades has nine combat maneuver companies.

Cody said the new force mix plan is that of those nine companies, five companies will be “motorized,” or equipped with armored Humvees, and the other four companies will be “mechanized,” or equipped with M1-A1 tanks or Bradley Fighting Vehicles.

The mix was different for Operation Iraqi Freedom 2: the 1st Cavalry Division, the 1st Infantry Division, and three National Guard brigades — the 39th from Arkansas, the 30th from North Carolina, and the 81st from Washington — came into Iraq with one-third of their combat forces mechanized, and the other two-thirds motorized, Cody said.

That meant that for each mechanized infantry battalion, one company deployed with Bradleys or tanks; and the other two companies deployed with 12 to 16 up-armored Humvees, Cody said.

The exception was the 2nd Infantry Division’s Stryker Brigade, which deployed with all of its 300 Stryker armored wheeled combat vehicles, he said.

U.S. Central Command leaders settled on Operation Iraqi Freedom 2 force mix earlier this year, because they thought U.S. troops would spend the summer and fall either patrolling Iraq in tandem with Iraq security forces or seeking out insurgents — not fighting.

Accordingly, CENTCOM’s commander, Gen. John Abizaid, and other commanders on the ground decided the Operation Iraqi Freedom 2 troops should have vehicles that would allow them to emphasize “speed and flexibility” over firepower, Marine Maj. Gen. John Sattler, director of Central Command Operations, told reporters from CENTCOM’s Qatar headquarters on April 28.

“There’s a time and place for [armored vehicles], and they send a very valuable message just by pulling one up to the front lines,” Sattler said.

But “counterinsurgency requires you to get up, to actually engage and work with the population,” Sattler said. “And that's tough to do from inside a tank, or a Bradley, or an armored personnel carrier.” [or an Up Armored Humvee--Cannoneer No. 4]

The force mix “was [designed] for patrolling,” Cody said.

But in March, smack in the middle of the rotation of forces between Operation Iraqi Freedom 1 and Operation Iraqi Freedom 2, the security situation in Iraq began to deteriorate.

Last week, U.S. commanders in Iraq asked for and received an emergency shipment of additional armored vehicles, Sattler said.

The shipments included 14 M1-A1 Abrams tanks that were sent to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in western Iraq; and 28 Abrams tanks that were forwarded from Europe to the 1st Infantry Division in north-central Iraq, Sattler said.

[R. Scott]

It’s very possible that the Powers that Be had this silly notion that soldier sometimes are killed or wounded in a war. That is why they are considered “heroes” by most people - they put their lives and bodies on the line for the rest of us. I doubt they foresaw the media push for a 100% invulnerable military force - one in which only the enemy would be killed or wounded and all American Forces would ride in air-conditioned comfort.

As much as I did not enjoy earning my Purple Heart, and as much as I did not enjoy seeing American Soldiers, Marines and Sailors killed or wounded (I never witnessed an American Airman get it) it is almost a necessity. The risk of taking casualties is about the only thing that keeps us out of a war.

With a 100% invulnerable military force there would be little reason not to wage war - except for the fiscal cost.

I am not advocating a return to Napoleonic uniforms and tactics, but the public outrage over how “unsafe” this war has become is starting to grate on my nerves.

[xzins]

Latest word from the field is that the armored hummers are not effective against the RPGs and bombs that are killing them.

We need bradleys, tanks, strykers, and old apcs.

And more of the ied finding buffalos.

the argument about armored hummers is moot, so far as I'm concerned.

[Spirited]

We can afford any amount for all kinds of aids to all kinds of nations, friendly and not but we cannot afford to send our children out in safety? Perhaps this is being frugal.

If this is a Rummy imposed frugality I AM in favor of ditching him as untrustworthy. One wonders whether an Army
can be run like a Corporation when lives are at stake. Course if the lives do not include your own progeny or those of your friends who is to care?

[FRMAG]

The fact is, was, and will remain that the Hummer is simply an upgraded jeep which, like the original jeep was introduced to replace the horse. The damn things were never intended to serve in the front lines as they are being called on to do today.

The armored versions were intended for issue to MPs one of whose missions is patrol in urban areas. Even the armored versions were never designed to withstand land mines and command detonated mines. Only small arms fire. To expect that every single grunt will ride to the fight in an armored vehicle thats up to the threat is foolishness.

When boots on the ground cling to vehicles they are not being used as their training and experience dictates.

[RightWhale]

Jeeps are for carrying officers and orders from HQ to field positions and back. They are expendible.

[jackbill]

Can you imagine what WWII would have been like with 24/7 coverage and 24/7 second guessing on cable TV channels, talk radio, all news radio, etc., etc.?

After Pearl Harbor and Wake Island, how many members of American media would have been calling for surrender?

How many body bags from Guadalcanal and Tarawa would we have seen, and how would they have affected the American public?

Would we ever gotten to Iwo Jima and Okinawa?

Would the national media called for us to take the troops off of Omaha beach? How would we have seen the Battle of the Bulge?

God, it makes me sick.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Read this article from AM General's local paper.

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