New photos threaten to inflame abuse scandal

Globe & Mail ^ | 6 May 2004 | Oliver Moore

[Hal1950]

More photos showing the abuse of prisoners in Iraq have been published, threatening U.S. efforts to quiet a scandal spiralling out of control.

These graphic new images come amid reports from the International Committee for the Red Cross that its officials were worried about activities at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad, long before stories of mistreatment became public.

The new photos, which can be viewed at the website of the Washington Post, are similar to others that have leaked out, showing Iraqis in deeply humiliating poses. One depicts a man handcuffed naked to a bed with a pair of panties over his head. Another shows a man lying naked on the floor with a dog leash attached to his neck, the other end of the leash held by a U.S. soldier.

The photos come a day after U.S. President George W. Bush — who is reportedly furious that he only learned about prisoner mistreatment from a CBS report last week — assured the Arabic world that the United States would not stand for such behaviour.

His address did not convince the Arab commentators, who denounced the United States for hypocrisy, and also angered a man who thinks his sister-in-law has been shown in several of the photos.

Twenty-one-year-old Lynndie England is identified by the Washington Post as the person holding the leashed Iraqi. She appears to be the same person shown in the previous batch of photos, shown in those given a thumbs-up and pointing at a masturbating prisoner.

Specialist England has not been charged but is being detained in North Carolina at Fort Bragg. Her brother-in-law, James Klinestiver, told the Baltimore Sun that she is being scapegoated after visiting friends who were guards in the now infamous wing of Abu Ghraib where the documented abuses took place.

Mr. Klinestiver told the paper that Mr. Bush, who did not serve in Vietnam, "doesn't know what these guys are going through" in Iraq.

"How can you make decisions for our military unless you've served yourself?," he asked.

Members of Congress are also furious with the White House, saying that they have been kept in the dark as events at this prison in Iraq went out of control.

Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has taken heavy criticism for the military's handling of the prisoner-abuse scandal. He has agreed to appear Friday before the Senate Armed Forces Committee, amid accusations that the administration's jettisoning of judicial safeguards led inevitably to such abuses.

White House aides acknowledged Wednesday that, despite the President's statement that he retains confidence in Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Bush is angry to have been caught unawares by public revelations of prisoner abuse.

Again Thursday, Mr. Bush's spokesman said that his boss wants Mr. Rumsfeld to remain as head of the Defence Department.

"The President greatly appreciates the job that Secretary Rumsfeld is doing," press secretary Scott McClellan told a morning briefing.

Citing what it called "the botched handling" of the abuse investigation and a his overall decisions about the Iraq war, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch said in a Thursday editorial that Mr. Rumsfeld "should resign and take his top deputies with him."

Asked Thursday on CBS's The Early Show whether Mr. Bush should fire Mr. Rumsfeld, Senator John McCain said that he could not presume to tell Mr. Bush what he should do. But the Arizona Republican, who was captured and tortured during the war in Vietnam, added that "there's a lot of explaining that Secretary Rumsfeld and others have to do, including why Congress was never informed as to this."

[Reactionary]

The only thing that's "spiraling out of control" is the anti-American propaganda of the Left wing.

[Bahbah]

"How can you make decisions for our military unless you've served yourself?," he asked.

But I will bet you anything, he will support Hillary's run for the presidency. BTW, this is a very stupid statement.

[ClearCase_guy]

reports from the International Committee for the Red Cross that its officials were worried about activities at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad, long before stories of mistreatment became public.

Another example of an international organization that Knew about a problem yet did nothing.

The difference with Bush, is that when HE found out about it, he immediately took action to stop it.

I think I've seen this pattern before.

[WhiskeyPapa]

The only thing that's "spiraling out of control" is the anti-American propaganda of the Left wing.

Wrong. If you are in charge, you are responsible.

"When you pass along some of your duties down the chain of command to more junior non-commissioned leaders, you hold the latter responsible for producing. At the same time, you delegate to each subordinate the authority he needs to carry out his duty. In this way, each level of the chain of command, from division or air wing down to fire team, receives authority equal to its responsibilities; and each level carries out its missions under directiion and supervision of the next higher level.

Although you can delegate authority to your subordinates, you always carry the ultimate responsibility for all that your unit does or leaves undone."

--"Handbook For Marine NCO's; Second Edition" p. 301 by Col. Robert Debs Heinl, Jr.

The president needs to fire Rumsfeld, now, today.

Walt

[tlrugit]

Perhaps the shock and scandal of the Arab world would be assuaged if the US turned over all prisons and interrogations to Iraqis. That way they would be held and questioned in a manner to which they are accustomed, making them feel more comfortable, more at home, more secure that they are being understood and their needs met in the usual Arab way. Allah akbar (or whatever).

[ClancyJ]

"How can you make decisions for our military unless you've served yourself?,"

Gee, how can you raise a child unless you bore that child? How can you heal a broken arm unless you have had a broken arm, how can you do heart surgery unless you had heart surgery?

These people are absolute idiots.

Now we see who is fighting with America and who is abetting the enemy by WHO is posting additional pictures. There is no more need for pictures - they have been shown. Now they are abetting the enemy, inflaming the Mideast against America AND insulting the reputation of every soldier that is fighting, shedding blood and being killed over there.

Enough already - our soldiers are in danger and they are helping inflame the enemy to recruit more terrorists. I am going to start being vocal about this nonsense.

[Judith Anne]

No, he doesn't need to fire Rumsfeld.

If Rumsfeld thinks that he is doing the president irreparable and unredeemable harm, he'll resign. I think he's done a good job so far, and I think he'll stay.

The fact that the left is overreacting and calling for firings, using the prison incidents as fodder, when there have not even been trials yet, makes me think that this is
just another AWOL type flap. Let's just get it over with.

[JennysCool]

I don't think we want the scenario American In Tokyo predicted in another thread:

Then watch. Once he resigns, they won't vote for his replacement in confirmation hearings, holding it up for months, on the basis he or she would be "too conservative".

3 posted on 05/06/2004 9:16:57 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)

[Huntingtonian]

Bush deserves credit for taking the right action when he found out. But having read some of that report, it really looks like DOD really tried to suppress knowldge of it. The President shouldn't have to rely on the media to inform him of the activites of HIS subbordinates. The Pres should begin an investigation into who was preventing the flow of information to him and cut a few heads off (figuratively).

[WhiskeyPapa]

If Rumsfeld thinks that he is doing the president irreparable and unredeemable harm, he'll resign. I think he's done a good job so far, and I think he'll stay.

If Rumsfeld were doing a "good" job, we would not have had to extend the 1 year tours of those affected units by 90 days. Museums and public buildings would not have been looted last year after the fall of Baghdad, our guys would have more armored vehicles and fewer Hummers, the list goes on and on.

In fact, he's done -everything- wrong.

Walt

[ClancyJ]

And to be replaced by whom?

Did you read the report of the investigation? Action was being taken as these people were relieved of duty in January and the recommendations for handling each is in the report. That report did not get done in the last 2-3 days - it has been in process for a good period of time, so the matter was being handled.

So, because some low-class military personnel are unhappy they have to serve, since they only signed up for the freebies of education, decide to act without regard of anyone else in a manner that dishonors Americans, the military and our war effort and you think the only solution is for the top commander to be fired?

If this was true there would be no top commanders and it would not matter how they led because any transgression would make them lose their jobs.

Gosh, all efforts to get Rumsfeld out and to destroy the Bush administration have failed. Maybe it was time to "buy" some help from low-class military to give a reason Rumsfeld MUST be fired.

[ClancyJ]

Everything wrong?

Having executed the swiftest, most effective war ever and you say this was not good enough? Are you a dem infiltrator? Are you listening to the dem talking points?

The new war effort is to be fast and able to move quickly as needed. Being bogged down with heavy equipment and massive unneeded personnel slows everything down when dealing with the terrain in Iraq.

Maybe you just don't agree with modernization of the military and prefer to fight as wars were fought years ago.

Who - other than liberals - says there was no after plan for Iraq. Seems to me the plan is in place and working. One year and they are nearly ready to turn Iraq over to Iraqis? How long did it take in WWII?

What blooming idiot would plan and war and NOT plan for all contingencies? Surely not a man who had been leading military units most of his life.

[Judith Anne]

Good post, with which I agree. Just heard Helen Thomas trying to pin this on President Bush, hinting that the president was responsible for this abuse, therefore HE should resign.

It's all a bunch of hysteria. I really get frosted by those who blame Rumsfeld when they have the benefit of hindsight. I think the war has gone remarkably well on the ground, I'm proud of our troops and their commanders in the field, and the whole story has NOT yet come out on these allegations of abuse. The photos don't really ring true, in some way...I'd like to wait and see what other information may come out. Too often people jump to conclusions without having all the facts, particularly the media does this when something may embarrass the president.

I'm reminded of the Senate Intelligence Committee memo written by Sen. Rockefeller, who said that information could be selectively declassified and then politically used against the president, in this election.

I haven't forgotten that, in case anyone else has. And did Rockefeller resign for that memo, that Sen Zell Miller said was "if not treason, then the next best thing."? No, he didn't. He didn't even apologize.

I think we're seeing some of that intelligence being declassified and coming out NOW. After all, the investigation had begun last January.

[Howlin]

I will post this again -- as I did on another thread:

Every single person who espouses these demands for resignation and condemantions the military and government should be asked if they are also demanding that Kerry withdraw from the presidential race.

After all, if this looks bad for American, how could we ever allow an admitted murderer and torturer to hold the Oval office?

[Judith Anne]

Good point.

[Voteamerica]

though you can delegate authority to your subordinates, you always carry the ultimate responsibility for all that your unit does or leaves undone."

--"Handbook For Marine NCO's; Second Edition" p. 301 by Col. Robert Debs Heinl, Jr.

The president needs to fire Rumsfeld, now, today.

Walt

Walt I hate to say it but you're right. There were photographs published in today's Washington Post which cross the line to torture. Specifically there is one of a man, naked and handcuffed to a bed so that a steel corner of the bed digs into his back. Such a position would be painful if maintained for only a minute, and I pray that is all the longer it was held, but if they kept him like that for any time it would be excrutitating.

The other consideration is how the photos depicting homosexual activity are viewed in the Islamic world. Like it or not their opinion matters, and they do not look at this the way Americans might.

The only hope of recovering American standing worldwide and particularly in the Arab world is strong and decisive action on the part of the president that demonstrates how seriously he considers this issue.

As for who would replace Rumsfeld, Winston Churchill said, "The graveyards are full of indispensable people." Life will go on, another qualified person will take that post, likely on an acting basis until after the election.

[stop_fascism]

Mark Morford and Andrew Sullivan have both scheduled vacations at Abu Graib.

[petercooper]

Marv Albert also.