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Simulated Prison in '71 Showed a Fine Line Between `Normal' and `Monster'
NY Times ^ | May 6, 2004 | JOHN SCHWARTZ

Posted on 05/05/2004 10:25:31 PM PDT by neverdem

In 1971 researchers at Stanford University created a simulated prison in the basement of the campus psychology building. They randomly assigned 24 students to be either prison guards or prisoners for two weeks.

Within days the "guards" had become swaggering and sadistic, to the point of placing bags over the prisoners' heads, forcing them to strip naked and encouraging them to perform sexual acts.

The landmark Stanford experiment and studies like it give insight into how ordinary people can, under the right circumstances, do horrible things — including the mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

What is the distance between "normal" and "monster"? Can anyone become a torturer?

Such questions, explored over the decades by philosophers and social scientists, come up anew whenever shocking cases of abuse burst upon the national consciousness, whether in the interrogation room, the police station or the high school locker room.

Hannah Arendt coined the phrase "banality of evil" to describe the very averageness of the Nazi leader Adolf Eichmann. Social psychologists pursued the question more systematically, conducting experiments that demonstrated the power of situations to determine human behavior.

Dr. Philip G. Zimbardo, a leader of the Stanford prison study, said that while the rest of the world was shocked by the images from Iraq, "I was not surprised that it happened."

"I have exact, parallel pictures of prisoners with bags over their heads," from the 1971 study, he said.

At one point, he said, the guards in the fake prison ordered their prisoners to strip and used a rudimentary sex joke to humiliate them.

Professor Zimbardo ended the experiment the next day, more than a week earlier than planned.

Prisons, where the balance of power is so unequal, tend to be brutal and abusive places unless great effort is made to control the guards' base impulses, he said. At Stanford and in Iraq, he added: "It's not that we put bad apples in a good barrel. We put good apples in a bad barrel. The barrel corrupts anything that it touches."

To the extent that the Abu Ghraib guards acted, as some have said, at the request of intelligence officers, other studies, performed 40 years ago by Dr. Stanley Milgram, then a psychology professor at Yale, can also offer some explanation, researchers said. In a series of experiments, he told test subjects that they were taking part in a study about teaching through punishment.

The subjects were instructed by a researcher in a white lab coat to deliver electric shocks to another participant, the "student."

Every time the student gave an incorrect answer to a question, the subject was ordered to deliver a shock. The shocks started small but became progressively stronger at the researcher's insistence, with labels on the machine indicating jolts of increasing intensity — up to a whopping 450 volts.

The shock machine was a cleverly designed fake, though, and the victims were actors who moaned and wailed. But to the test subjects the experience was all too real.

Most showed anguish as they carried out the instructions. A stunning 65 percent of those taking part obeyed the commands to administer the electric shocks all the way up to the last, potentially lethal switch, marked "XXX."

Dr. Charles B. Strozier, director of the Center on Terrorism and Public Safety at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said the prison guards in Iraq might feel that the emotions of war and the threat of terrorism gave them permission to dehumanize the prisoners.

"There has been a serious, siesmic change in attitude after 9/11 in the country in its attitude about torture," Dr. Strozier said, a shift that is evident in polling and in public debate. In the minds of many Americans, he said, "it's O.K. to torture now, to get information that will save us from terrorism."

Craig W. Haney, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who was one of the lead researchers in the Stanford experiment, says prison abuses can be prevented by regular training and discipline, along with outside monitoring.

Without outsiders watching, Professor Haney said, "what's regarded as appropriate treatment can shift over time," so "they don't realize how badly they're behaving."

"If anything," he said, "the smiling faces in those pictures suggest a total loss of perspective, a drift in the standard of humane treatment."

Experiments like those at Stanford and Yale are no longer done, in part because researchers have decided that they involved so much deception and such high levels of stress — four of the Stanford prisoners suffered emotional breakdowns — that the experiments are unethical.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Connecticut; US: District of Columbia; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: culturewars; desensitization; howardstern; iraqipow; itsjustaboutsex; moralreletavism; prison; psychology; stanford; yale
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1 posted on 05/05/2004 10:25:31 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: fourdeuce82d; Travis McGee; El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; ...
PING
2 posted on 05/05/2004 10:27:09 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Great post, spot on, entirely apropos.
3 posted on 05/05/2004 10:33:58 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: neverdem
Wow...what a great post. Ever since 9-11 I too have changed my mind about torture. Who here wouldn't relish the idea of slowly torturing Osama Bin Laden...or approve of a public execution as excellent theatre?

In a way, the whole middle east has desensatized the world, along with some help via sattelite and the internet. The killing of a mother and her four children barely raise an eyebrow...

The real tragedy is not the sub human creatures that were humiliated, but the desensatizing foisted upon us by the Middle Eastern Barbarians.

4 posted on 05/05/2004 10:37:40 PM PDT by antaresequity
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To: neverdem
Lord of the Flies
5 posted on 05/05/2004 10:39:05 PM PDT by Cap Huff
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To: neverdem
Which, if you think about it, can explain why ordinary people can become virtual bloodthirsty backstabbing agents of sedition in the Democrat party and media.

Some may think I'm trying to be humorous, but I'm completely serious. It is just a different shade of the same pathology. Little different from the screaming knee-jerk 'nuke Mecca' types that invariably post here.

Which is why a moral compass and societal rules are always needed. The whole 60's worship of 'pushing the limits, breaking the rules, shock culture' is simply playing itself out. Densisitization does occur, whether we choose to admit it or not.
6 posted on 05/05/2004 10:45:16 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: neverdem
Great post!

Bump.
7 posted on 05/05/2004 10:46:41 PM PDT by GottaLuvAkitas1 (What a Tangled Web We Weave . .when first we practice to deceive!)
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To: wardaddy; texasflower; McGavin999
bttt
8 posted on 05/05/2004 10:47:06 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Howlin; PhiKapMom; Miss Marple
FYI
9 posted on 05/05/2004 10:47:20 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: antaresequity
Wow...what a great post. Ever since 9-11 I too have changed my mind about torture. Who here wouldn't relish the idea of slowly torturing Osama Bin Laden...or approve of a public execution as excellent theatre?

(raises hand)

The very thoughts are abhorrent.

10 posted on 05/05/2004 10:47:21 PM PDT by Caesar Soze
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To: Caesar Soze
The very thoughts are abhorrent.

Given enought time, you too would change.

An interesting experiment would be to let the 9-11 widows guard Osama unsupervised for a week with nothing but spoons.

11 posted on 05/05/2004 10:51:54 PM PDT by antaresequity
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To: Travis McGee
I read this report a couple of days ago. Have you read the raw data file? Very interesting, and shows the failure of command and the situation these guys were working in. It still does not excuse their behavior, but it explains a lot.
12 posted on 05/05/2004 10:53:08 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: McGavin999; B4Ranch
Total failure in the command structure. The 'rats are going to demand hearings, and they'll be after CIA scalps.

The small fry will sing like canaries: "Agent Flagg told us to do this!!!!!"

The 'rats will pin this on the CIA as a way of pinning it on the Whitehouse. "What instructions was the CIA giving about 'softening up' prisonters for interrogation?"

This is going to get ugly.

13 posted on 05/05/2004 11:00:02 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Interesting post. Thanks for the ping.
14 posted on 05/05/2004 11:18:35 PM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: Travis McGee
Might not, woman general, don't ask/don't tell. This could get ugly for the libs as well.
15 posted on 05/05/2004 11:20:11 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: antaresequity
Uh. Count me out on that.
16 posted on 05/05/2004 11:21:02 PM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: McGavin999
The "general" has a husband.
17 posted on 05/05/2004 11:22:53 PM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: neverdem
The NYT has to go back to a pop-psych test, never repeated or peer-reviewed, 33 years ago in order to slander our troops.
18 posted on 05/05/2004 11:29:42 PM PDT by ikka
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To: McGavin999
It would if our RINOs weren't spineless cowards who never fight back with all the tools at their disposal. We both know the female soldier aspects will never be mentioned.
19 posted on 05/05/2004 11:30:19 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ikka
The NYT has to go back to a pop-psych test, never repeated or peer-reviewed, 33 years ago in order to slander our troops.

I have always been a bit dubious about that study. But the article seems in a way exculpatory. It says this sort of thing is inevitable unless the guards themselves are kept under tight control.

It is a pretty tall order, guarding thousands of Iraqi prisoners, most of whom tried to kill Americans with IEDs, and many succeeded. We are observing some breakdown in the ability to do that while maintaining a high level of professionalism. Human nature says if things slide, they are going to slide bigtime.

20 posted on 05/05/2004 11:37:50 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy
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