Californians Say Teach Scientific Evidence Both For and Against Darwinian Evolution, Show New Polls

Discovery Institute ^ | 5/3/04 | Staff: Discovery Institute

[orionblamblam]

> God's already demonstrated that He is.

To you, maybe. But clearly not to the vast majority of people throughout history or today.

> Pride or knowledge?

Pride. You claim to know what is in the hearts and minds of those who believe differently than you... and you have chosen to believe that they believe differently than you because they are morally inferior to you. You choose to believe that those who believe differetnly than you do so because they are evil.

That's PRIDE, bucko. God's got a special corner in Hell for such prideful Christians. Christianity has no worse enemy than people such as yourself.

[DannyTN]

To you, maybe. But clearly not to the vast majority of people throughout history or today.

I think we will all be surprised when God reveals all of efforts to get men to recognize Him and all of the evidence that was available if only man would choose to open his eyes.

Pride. You claim to know what is in the hearts and minds of those who believe differently than you... and you have chosen to believe that they believe differently than you because they are morally inferior to you. You choose to believe that those who believe differetnly than you do so because they are evil.

Jesus said those words in blue. I do not believe that non-Christians are morally inferior to me, for I know without a doubt that I am morally inferior. The only difference is that I've taken up God on his offer of a pardon. That's not much of a difference. I would that all men would take God up on his offer, and I don't understand why they do not. But Jesus pretty clearly said that the choice is theirs to make.

That's PRIDE, bucko. God's got a special corner in Hell for such prideful Christians. Christianity has no worse enemy than people such as yourself.

There is no corner in Hell for Christians, not true Christians. Heaven isn't reserved for people with works but for those whom Jesus knew. Hell isn't reserved for people without works but for those whom Jesus never knew. It's the relationship that's key.

Math 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[orionblamblam]

> Well, frankly, it's going to suck to be you.

Well, unless someone can point to this being already in existence, I hereby propose Lowther's Law:

"Any debate on evolution vs. creationism will, sooner or later, produce the claim by the creationist side that the evolutionist is doomed to Hell."

The debate should at that point be considered ended, as no further rational discussion can likely be had.

Does this Law already exist and have a name?

[orionblamblam]

> . I would that all men would take God up on his offer, and I don't understand why they do not.

A lot of it is due to the fact that to some self-appointed uberChristians, belief in God also means belief in other things that are patently absurd, like believing allegory as literal fact.

> depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Bad news for the Creationists, then...

[DannyTN]

"Then the Bible is in error, since that is obviously not the case. "

Well, only God and you know whether you are "willingly" ignorant. I'm not the one who will judge you on the matter.

Appeals to supernatural punishment do not change the facts of the situation: the universe, from the grandest of scales to the smallest, exhibits the nature of something that has evolved.

You mistake an appeal for a warning. I have no desire to see such punishment carried out. If I did desire such, I'd simply leave this discussion. I agree neither appeal nor warning changes the "facts of the situation". But I see the "facts" much differently than you do. If you are "willingly" fooling yourself, then it's time to reexamine the facts.

Don't let Satan manipulate you into believing evolution, simply because Satan was able to manipulate some creationist morons, (and I agree with you that they were morons) harden your position and prejudice you to the facts.

You are in the middle of a war for your mind and soul. I plead with you to carefully reexamine those "facts".

[mgstarr]

Look on the bright side - back in the good old days, there's quite a few people on this thread that would have had you burned at the stake for heresy.

That's progress at least.... or possibly evolution ;-)

[DannyTN]

Does this Law already exist and have a name?

I don't know but it does seem self-evident. But I think we should add Danny's Precursor to Lowther's Law, as well as Danny's Exceptions to Lowther's Law.

"Most debates on evolution vs. creationism will, sooner or later, produce the claim by the evolutionist side that God cannot be known or is not known, thereupon resulting in Lowther's Law" - Danny's Precursor to Lowther's Law

"Any debate on evolution vs. creationism will, sooner or later, produce the claim by the creationist side that the evolutionist is doomed to Hell." - Lowther's Law

"It should be noted that the creationist side acknowledges two exceptions to Lowther's law.

• 1) there are Christians who know Jesus but have been fooled into believing evolution. These are still saved.
• 2) The evolutionist can always accept Jesus anytime up to and including the day he dies. This might not cause the instantaneous rejection of his evolutionist beliefs, but he will still be saved."
  -Danny's Exceptions to Lowther's Law

[orionblamblam]

> only God and you know whether you are "willingly" ignorant.


Hmm. Then who was it who said, "The Bible also says the skoffers are "willfully" ignorant."

So... are you misrepresenting what the Bible says? What kind of Christian are you?

> Don't let Satan manipulate you into believing evolution

Satan is a devout Creationist. Only one such as Satan would tell a person to look at the universe, and then draw the dead wrong conclusions from the vast evidence contained therein.

[DannyTN]

"Look on the bright side - back in the good old days, there's quite a few people on this thread that would have had you burned at the stake for heresy. "

Burning at the stake was witchcraft wasn't it. I don't remember what the Roman Catholics did to those they considered heretics but I agree it wasn't pretty regardless. But both of those predated Darwin.

Are there really any examples of Christians persecuting evolutionists except by harsh words? Oh and Orion's unfortunate High School experience, which on the behalf of all Christians I hereby apologize for and acknowledge as being the wrong way to handle that.

[DannyTN]

See apology in 229

[orionblamblam]

> it does seem self-evident.

Indeed, because so many Christians have been fooled by Satan into believing Creationism, and their faith is so weak that they must try to make everyone else conform to a belief system that they *know* is silly. In such situations, no tactic is out of bounds, from appeals to fear to deception.

[orionblamblam]

> Are there really any examples of Christians persecuting evolutionists except by harsh words?

Scopes springs to mind. And of course, daily examples throughout schools and families world-wide. In Lakewood, CO, in about 1998, there was an attempt to get the school board to force teachers in science classes to also teach religion, on pain of termination; this, however, failed to pass. Such laws as this still exist and continue to pop up here and there.

[orionblamblam]

> back in the good old days, there's quite a few people on this thread that would have had you burned at the stake for heresy.

What do you mean "back?" Hell, they'd try it NOW, if they thought they could get away with it.

[Elsie]

It's a very late transcription of a much older oral tradition, by an unsophisticated and relatively primitive middle-eastern tribe.

 

 

 

Sorry, but I don't FIND the above at the link you provide.

It does seem to have a good epresentation of how our bible has come down thru the ages to us today.

 

I do find it's ADVERTISERS a bit, shall we say, unbelieveing.

---

---

 

      

 

Uh..... this website wouldn't be a bit BIASED, would it??

[DannyTN]

Hmm. Then who was it who said, "The Bible also says the skoffers are "willfully" ignorant." So... are you misrepresenting what the Bible says? What kind of Christian are you?

I'm not following your logic here. I mean, yes, I know that the skoffers are "willfully" ignorant. But I know that because the Bible says so. I have no proof other than that. Therefore it's hearsay. Extremely reliable hearsay. And yes, based on that I've judged your comments and reached the conclusion you fit the definition of the skoffer there, but I'm not going to JUDGE you in the sense of a court of law or me handing down any punishment. Not my job. Don't really want it. My job is to warn, nothing more.

Satan is a devout Creationist. Only one such as Satan would tell a person to look at the universe, and then draw the dead wrong conclusions from the vast evidence contained therein.

Well, in the final analysis, we will all know exactly why the evidence is what it is, and which were the wrong conclusions and which were the right. And what evidence was "willfully" or "unwillfully" ignored and by whom.

[Elsie]

 

 

• 1) there are Christians who know Jesus but have been fooled into believing evolution. These are still saved.
• 2) The evolutionist can always accept Jesus anytime up to and including the day he dies. This might not cause the instantaneous rejection of his evolutionist beliefs, but he will still be saved."

 

Yup, you've boiled it down to it's essence!

[Elsie]

They ain't called FLAME wars fer NOTHING!!!

[orionblamblam]

>I know that the skoffers are "willfully" ignorant.

Then you know incorrectly. And we're back to that massive amount of *pridefullness* you've been demonstrating. You choose to believe that those who believe differently than you have intentionally chosen to believe what they know to be wrong.

You... are in error.

But we're going round in circles here.

[DannyTN]

"I do draw a line at believing in a God who consigns his creations to an eternity of suffering and I do so beause I myself could not find it within me to condemn the worst who ever lived to an ETERNITY of incredible suffering and I cannot believe that I am more merciful than my creator. "

"I will be merciful to whom I will be merciful."

Have you given your son to pay for the sins of the world? No. Then you are not more merciful than your Creator.

No, you would simply break the law set forth in the beginning that the penalty for sin is death. Your "mercy" comes at the cost of "truth" and "justice".

Merciful to whom? The worst that ever lived? Or the occupants of Heaven. Should the unrepentant be freed to live in Heaven?

[DannyTN]

One of us is in error.