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Crew Contradicted Kerry Over Battle, Doctor Alleges
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 5, 2004 | Stephen Braun

Posted on 05/05/2004 10:17:43 AM PDT by kellynla

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To: kellynla
I find the account as it is now revealed to be completely believable.

IIRC, the "action" that led to PH#1 took place while Jf'n was quite new in country. Probably undergoing a standard "training regimen" prior to joining his actual combat unit.

If he fired an M79 into the nearby shoreline as has been reported, this would be a typical mistake of an FNG. The shrapnel from that 40mm round could easily have hit him and the others. So, it was technically a self inflicted wound.

In the absence of any enemy fire the only other explanation I can come up with is that he might have cut himself intentionally and forced the piece of found shrapnel into the wound.

61 posted on 05/05/2004 1:44:26 PM PDT by There's millions of'em (John Kerry is a French Fry. With ketchup.)
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To: js1138
Shameless musical interlude:

LOL - Here's another one, compliments of Monty Python's Flying Circus:

Bravely bold Sir Kerry Rode forth to VietNam.
He was not afraid to die,
Oh brave Sir Kerry.
He was not at all afraid
To be killed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Kerry.

He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Kerry.

His head smashed in
And his heart cut out
And his liver removed
And his bowls unplugged
And his nostrils raped
And his bottom burnt off
And his pen--

"That's... that's enough music for now lads, there's dirty work afoot."

Brave Sir Kerry ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Kerry turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Kerry!

62 posted on 05/05/2004 2:41:47 PM PDT by GaltMeister (This is not my tagline. It belongs to my family.)
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To: GaltMeister
Can't compete with masters.
63 posted on 05/05/2004 4:20:19 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: kellynla
Bump.
64 posted on 05/05/2004 4:24:45 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly ... But Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS press corpse lies every day.)
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To: Mo1

"They did not receive any fire from shore," he wrote, "but said that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewmen thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks."

When I first saw this explanation, I thought that it was an impossibility, in that (I thought) an 81mm couldn't fire a round close enough to itself, to wound the crew with shrapnel.

Upon further research, I find that it is POSSIBLE, if unlikely. The 81 used on swift boats could be depressed to MINUS 30 degrees. (To do so, it had a "fire by trigger" mechanism.)

Also, they had a "Beehive round" (see below). If "captain" Kerry fired at some rocks, 10 feet away, he might have been struck by a piece of a flechette. That would account for the shape of the "shrapnel" the Dr. described.

 

The Mk 2 Mod 1 could traverse 360 degrees, elevate to 71.5 degrees, and
depress to -30 degrees. It fired in one of two modes: DROP FIRE or
TRIGGER FIRE. Rate of fire at 45 degrees for DROP FIRE was 18
rounds/minute and 10 rounds/minute in TRIGGER FIRE.

Cartridges used by the 81mm mortar are:

M43-series HE - Light (as used in WW2 81mm M1 mortars)
M362-series HE - Heavy (as used in 81mm M29 mortars)
M374-series HE - Heavy (as used in 81mm M29 mortars)
M301-series HE - Heavy (as used in 81mm M29 mortars)
M57-series WP Smoke - Heavy (for M29 mortars)
M375-series WP Smoke - Heavy (for M29 mortars)
Mk 112 Mod 0 Leaflet (used only by Mk 2 mortars)
Mk 115 Mod 0 Chaff (used only by Mk 2 mortars)
Mk 133 Mod 0 Chaff (used only by Mk 2 mortars)
Mk 134 Mod 0 Chaff (used only by Mk 2 mortars)
Mk 135 Mod 0 Chaff (used only by Mk 2 mortars)
Mk 120 Mod 0 APERS (used only by Mk 2 mortars)

Training

The HE rounds came in either point detonating, proximity, or mechanical
time fusing. The WP Smoke rounds were point detonating or mechanical
time fused. The Illumination rounds were mechanical time fused. The chaff
and leaflet rounds were mechanical time fused.

The Mk 120 Mod 0 cartridge was fuseless round. Its body resembled a WW2
German "potato masher" hand grenade with a large can-shaped container
for 1,200 13-grain flechettes; a petal-shaped drag ring in the middle of the
shaft; and fins on the end of the shaft. The Fin assembly Mk 4 Mod 1
contained the ignition cartridge M6, primer M34, and attachment point for
seven increment charges M2A1. No explosive filler was used. The effective
range of the cartridge was 10 to 600 feet. The cartridge is painted olive drab
with a 1/2-inch brown band marked with white diamonds and carries the
following description stenciled in white: "CARTRIDGE, 81MM,
ANTI-PERSONNEL, MK 120 MOD 0." Overall length of the loaded
cartridge was 12.62 inches.

When fired, the burning propellant gases would melt a fusible plug in the
bottom of the flechette carrier end. the gas would expand into a chamber
topped by a plate (piston) the piston would move forward, carrying the
flechettes with it, break the plastic cover, and be expelled in a cone-shaped
pattern effective out to 600 feet. Drop at 600 feet was approximately 6 feet
(or nil) which made it perfect for the direct fire role.

The Mk 120 Mod 0 cartridge turned the 81mm mortar into a giant shotgun.
It was typically used in the TRIGGER FIRE role where the devastating
effect of its 1,200 flechettes could be a tactical advantage. You wouldn't want
to stick your head up within 600 feet of this nasty swarm of killer-bees.

http://www.ptfnasty.com/weapons2.htm

65 posted on 05/05/2004 5:15:27 PM PDT by DoorGunner ("A KERRY Ain't Nothin' But a Sandwich")
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
You really have to question Kerry's mental status.Then and now.
Kerry was disturbed a/o cowardly to demand a Purple Heart for a phantom injury.
But, to continue to promote the myth that he received a war time Purple Heart for an injury that was self inflicted and microscopic, shows that Kerry may be even more disturbed than previously thought.

His actions cheapen the Purple Heart metals earned by real Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and the Air Force who were doing their duty for the country, while he had a plan to get 3 PH and get out as soon as he could. For use at a later date...........2004.
66 posted on 05/05/2004 5:30:24 PM PDT by Ethyl
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To: John Jorsett
That's how the obnoxious, condescending ass Dr. Charles Emerson Winchester III on MASH got his purple heart...maybe Kerry is taking cues from him
67 posted on 05/05/2004 6:29:13 PM PDT by HRoarke (F. John Kerry)
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
Are you suggesting that the YELLOW bicycle and matching shirt, hat and shoes are not by accident?
68 posted on 05/05/2004 6:37:36 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Of course they were Kerry's medals.....they were on both sides of the fence !)
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To: kellynla
So now Michael Meehan says that the records they produced are all there are.

Thus, he admits that there is no documentation that supports Kerry's first Purple Heart. A scribbled handwritten note by a corpsman doesn't do it.

Sounds like someone should follow him up on his suggestion to contact the Navy directly and request that Kerry's Purple Heart be revoked.
69 posted on 05/05/2004 6:58:48 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
You really have to question Kerry's mental status.Then and now. Kerry was disturbed a/o cowardly to demand a Purple Heart for a phantom injury. But, to continue to promote the myth that he received a war time Purple Heart for an injury that was self inflicted and microscopic, shows that Kerry may be even more disturbed than previously thought.

Well, he certainly is a pathological liar, which is a significant BJ Clinton personality trait. I am concinced that Clinton is a sociopath. Kerry, IMO, can only be viewed as EXTREMELY dangerous to the health of the Republic.

70 posted on 05/05/2004 7:21:28 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Any day you wake up is a good day.)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
" Kerry, IMO, can only be viewed as EXTREMELY dangerous to the health of the Republic."

I never thought I would hold anyone in lower regard than Clinton, but ,Kerry is an even bigger scumbag.
71 posted on 05/05/2004 7:32:04 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: kaehurowing
Sounds like someone should follow him up on his suggestion to contact the Navy directly...
And that's exactly what is going to happen. Kerry's C.O. Hibbard says he didn't sign off for the PH. And the person who signed the medical chart was not a medical officer. Kerry's shipmates say there was no enemy contact that day. And I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of Kerry's medals were investigated that there might be some issues with one or more of them too. Look for Kerry's fellow "Swifties" to keep these issues on the front burner. They were really upset last night in the news conference. And I feel the same way. Kerry lied about the "mass atrocities" and it appears that he lied about at least one of his medals. And when you have a retired Navy Rear Admiral say that you are not qualified to be the commander-in-chief of the military that is about as scathing a remark that a military person could say outside of the fact that he also said that Kerry "bugged-out" of Nam!!!
I think Kerry is T O A S T !!!
72 posted on 05/05/2004 7:34:47 PM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1/5 1st Mar Div. Nam 69&70 Semper Fi http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com)
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To: kellynla
John F'n Kerry is a fraud, pure and simple. I only hope the morons in this country wake up to this simple fact.
I worry he might just win!
73 posted on 05/05/2004 9:31:21 PM PDT by Lucky2 ( 2004 is the year the Yankees will win the World Series and GWB will be re-elected!)
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To: kellynla
Meehan and other Kerry aides questioned the timing of the group's emergence just as the Kerry campaign was launching a $25-million television ad campaign based on his Vietnam War record — which, in addition to three Purple Hearts, included a Silver Star and Bronze Stars won for battlefield heroics.

Gosh! Kerry starts a million dollar blitz claiming to be a war hero and they are shocked--just shocked--that they have attracted enough attention to get numerous conflicting accounts.

74 posted on 05/06/2004 12:31:15 AM PDT by Ruth A.
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To: Arrowhead1952
bttt
75 posted on 05/06/2004 1:01:10 AM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: kellynla
The Doctord alleges? . . .And his Commander; a host of other Vets who served with him. . .all 'allege'.

Have never heard that Kerry's 'Band O' Brothers' alleges he was a great and valued soldier.

76 posted on 05/06/2004 4:34:12 PM PDT by cricket (Liberals are a scourge . . .)
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