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To: LindaSOG; bentfeather; Radix; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Kathy in Alaska; Poohbah; hchutch; ...
Well, Canteen FRiends, I'm going to surprise you all here.

I, and every Sailor I've talked to over tha past days since this story broke, are absolutely DISGUSTED by the conduct of those yahoos that were supposed to guard those prisoners. It has shamed us all, and has brought great disgrace upon those of us who wear our uniforms with pride, and attempt at all times to carry ourselves with dignity.

I does not matter WHAT Saddam's toadies did before, or what the enemy does to us. You do NOT justify vile behavior in our troops by pointing to that of others. WE are the ones who are SUPPOSED to be different...the honorable ones, the strong who nonetheless use our strength to protect.

You all know me as a STRONG supporter of the Terror War, and those who continue to fight it. I know the same about you. Please listen to me on this. NO GOOD comes from trying to excuse or explain away what these vermin did. The damage they have done to our morale and standing with the American people is incalculable. When someone in a uniform does something rotten, then we ALL are tarred with that brush.

Another point: THIS WAS TORTURE. Some of the exact same things were done TO ME when I attended the Navy's Survival, Escape, Resistance, and Evasion scool, where we were taught through VERY rough experience that torture can be both MENTAL and PHYSICAL. Both are equally damaging and brutal. All the more so here, as there was absolutely no point to it, other than some yahoos getting their jollies.

These prisoners had no time-critical intel to impart. There weren't even any reports suggesting that they were being unruly. If they were carrying important intel, they would have been interrogated with drugs, far from cameras or laughing jerks in some perverse peanut gallery. If unruly, they would have been isolated. This was nothing more than some brutal, vicious REMFs getting their rocks off, while their superiors looked the other way. Christ, their top sarge was a prison guard in civilian life! He knew fully well that what they did was wrong.

You can say that the media is blowing this way out of proportion. So what? That's what they do, and it is only all the more reason that these jerks were stupid...they gave the Leftist media exactly what it wanted. Like it or not, the press has been on a hunt for another Me Lai since the start of the war. How stupid do you have to be then to do this, take pictures of it, or to ignore it if you are in command? Now the Left has what they want, and those idiots gave it to them on a silver platter.

Fraternity pranks? I was in a fraternity, and no such pranks were EVER played on ANY person in it. If they had been, I would have quit on the spot. Those prisoners, however, could not, nor could they go to a college administration with complaints about abuse, which can happen to ANY fraternity that doesn't watch its ass.

Anyone who thinks that this "wasn't so bad" is invited to spend two weeks in SERE school, and tell me again at that time.

The bottom line here is that anyone who puts on a uniform of the United States Armed Forces has a charge to keep. We are ALL taught about the Geneva Convention and the UCMJ regarding not only our own conduct if taken prisoner, but the treatment of others. We are also charged with conducting ourselves at all times in a dignified, honorable manner, and to not bring disgrace upon our Brothers or our Country. The morons who did these acts failed, in every respec, as did their commanders.

Yes, our enemies often act like savages. No, they do not recognize Geneva. However, as Americans, we are held to a much higher standard, both by the world AND the Americans we protect, as we should be. How many Americans now will look at EVERY returning Soldier as some ticking time bomb? How many will wonder, just a bit...

You guys have been my FRiends now for over three years. I've shared a great deal with you, and I hope I've earned your trust. If I have at all, please, trust me on this: Keep supporting the troops as you do. But DO NOT assume that those fools involved in this disgrace are worthy of that same support or respect that you shower us (thankfully) with. To condemn acts of barbarity is NOT to withdraw all support; it is in fact strengthening it for those who truly deserve it...those Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines who do their difficult and dangerous jobs with Honor, Courage, and Commitment, and who conduct themselves with the highest standards of decency in the defense of Liberty, as befits an American Fighting Man.

There is much sadness and shame in the ranks today. The hatred we feel for these animals is palpable for what they have done to us. We don't blame the press, or even the Liberals for this one. We blame those who DID IT, and we also realize that all of us will have to carry a portion of the shame, possibly for a long time to come.

Thak you all once again.

60 posted on 05/05/2004 5:17:14 PM PDT by Long Cut ("Fightin's commenced, Ike, now get to fightin' or get outta the way!"...Wyatt Earp, in Tombstone)
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To: Long Cut
I agree with you 100% Brother!
61 posted on 05/05/2004 5:21:41 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops! Past, Present and Future)
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To: Long Cut
Excellent and well thought out post. I hope those who think this was a fraternity prank read it as well as the DOD report linked from Fox and MSNBC.
63 posted on 05/05/2004 5:25:50 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: Long Cut
Preach it, brother!
64 posted on 05/05/2004 5:26:02 PM PDT by Poohbah (Darkdrake Lives!)
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To: Long Cut
"Like it or not, the press has been on a hunt for another Me Lai since the start of the war."

The big 5 liberal media and Hanoi Kerry
65 posted on 05/05/2004 5:27:20 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (FOX, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC The alphabet liberal media who cover up Hanoi Kerry's Viet Nam past.)
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To: Long Cut; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; LindaSOG; LaDivaLoca; Fawnn; Bethbg79; bentfeather; ...
PING to Active Duty Long Cut's response
73 posted on 05/05/2004 5:37:50 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (FOX, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC The alphabet liberal media who cover up Hanoi Kerry's Viet Nam past.)
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To: Long Cut
EXCELLENT
77 posted on 05/05/2004 5:47:24 PM PDT by cyborg
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To: Long Cut
I agree.
Thanks!
78 posted on 05/05/2004 5:47:47 PM PDT by Darksheare (A lesson in all of this- Something about hiring better help that doesn't stand around &watch you die)
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To: Long Cut; "Tony" Aguilar; 13th warrior; 1L; 1riot1ranger; 2bfree; 2_4texas; 375 H&H; 43for8; ...
I am on my knees saluting you FReeper Brother.

I am on my knees because I am praying to the Lord that this doesn't happen again.

I am saluting you because you are doing one hell of a job.

Thank You!

81 posted on 05/05/2004 5:49:24 PM PDT by Eaker (That the bright star of Texas shall never be dim while her soil boasts a son to raise rifle or limb.)
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To: Long Cut
BTTT for post #60. Thanks, Long Cut. You have my support.
83 posted on 05/05/2004 5:58:43 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (Take THAT Kerry and Hitlery! FREEPERS ROCK!!!!)
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To: Long Cut
I'm an old dog-face and I'm outraged beyond belief.

That was not the condition that I left "My Army" in when I retired in '92. Then who or should I say what was running it from 92 to 2000? What happened to all our services in the Grandiose social experiments fostered upon our services in the name of the "Peace Dividend" and "PCism?"
84 posted on 05/05/2004 5:59:09 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Long Cut
Long Cut, you have stated what I feel about this better than I could.

We ARE better than this behavior. That is what makes us different from people that use loaded jetliners to knock down office buildings. I am ashamed that these morons have allowed themselves to become the face of the U.S. Military. I am ashamed that they gave the press the type of story the press has been having orgasms over -- the type of story the press has been praying for.

I want their officers OUT of the military and I want those that perpetrated these actions turning large rocks into small rocks at Leavenworth.

"'They' do it" does not cut it as an excuse to behave in this manner.

"I didn't know any better" is the first lie told by the guilty.

"My husband is just a scapegoat" comes a pretty close second.

I, along with you, am heartsick over this, and disgusted at those who would excuse these barbarities.
86 posted on 05/05/2004 6:08:55 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: Long Cut; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Eaker

87 posted on 05/05/2004 6:09:43 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is ONLY ONE good Democrat: one that has just been voted OUT of POWER ! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: Peach
Long Cut's posts at #60 and on down...important view from active duty members.I read a similar message from a soldier in Iraq.
90 posted on 05/05/2004 6:16:28 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
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To: Long Cut
Wow!! I was just writing an e-mail about this and I may quote you on a couple of fine points you made and I hope you do not mind. All credit to you for putting what I was thinking into words.

Thanks
RB

101 posted on 05/05/2004 6:26:25 PM PDT by Rightly Biased (I'll vote Republican till the day I die then I'll vote democrat.)
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To: Long Cut
HUGE BUMP.

This should really be posted as a thread of its own. :-)

Thank you and all those who serve or have served with honor.
106 posted on 05/05/2004 6:38:35 PM PDT by k2blader (Some folks should worry less about how conservatives vote and more about how to advance conservatism)
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To: boxerblues; Texasforever
#60 and on down..from active duty Freeper.
107 posted on 05/05/2004 6:38:59 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
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To: Long Cut
I couldn't have said it better. Everyone in my squadron I've talked to feels the exact same. This is an absolute disgrace to the military.

Those involved have no idea how much they have screwed up things over there. The Muslim nutcases will use this as "proof" that all US military personnel are like this. Arabs are already too easy to convince with propaganda and conspiracy theories. We did not need some dumbass pictures being broadcast across the Arab world. I also want to know who the mentally deficient moron was that decided it was a good idea to take pictures. Pictures in the military always have a bad habit of turning up.

114 posted on 05/05/2004 6:49:49 PM PDT by scarface367 (This tagline close captioned for the hearing impaired)
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To: Long Cut
There is much sadness and shame in the ranks today.

Never have so few hurt so many.

I do demand that they get the max and I grieve with you that our job has gotten so much harder.

I hope and pray that the damage is temporary and that some sort of normal returns.

It is good to know that after reading the AR-15 report, that the investigator made a point of saying that many MPs did a outstanding job in this brigade, even without the supervision that they should have had and that they were a credit to the service.

With that in mind, we shall all go forward and finish this mission with honor. That is what we did during the Nam era when the very same Mr. Hersh broke the story of Mei Li.

That fellows name is burned into my mind. (Mr. Seymore Hersh) The so called journalist.

129 posted on 05/05/2004 7:26:53 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs)
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To: commish
Ping to 60. I used some of that report here as well...some people just don't get it.
131 posted on 05/05/2004 7:32:43 PM PDT by Long Cut ("Fightin's commenced, Ike, now get to fightin' or get outta the way!"...Wyatt Earp, in Tombstone)
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To: Long Cut; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Great reply Long Cut. I agree with you 100%!! Way to go Brother!

Tonk: Thanks for the ping.
179 posted on 05/05/2004 9:42:55 PM PDT by bkwells (GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY!)
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