The Divine Calm of George W. Bush: Iraq's a mess, half the country hates you - just keep praying!

Village Voice ^ | May 3rd, 2004 9:30 AM | Rick Perlstein

[Peach]

My point is that President Bush does not make decisions based on religious reasons alone. You have no proof that he does, because he doesn't.

If he did, he wouldn't be talking to advisors and seeking out additional information.

Even if you were to believe that loathesome creature, Richard Clarke, Bush cornered him and wanted to make SURE that Saddam wasn't behind 9/11.

If he was acting on religious reasons alone, he wouldn't have done that but would have gone ahead and attacked Iraq before attacking Afghanistan.

As well, your comment that he makes a decision and religious reasons prevent him from changing his mind are hardly borne out by the facts. I listed a few things he has changed his mind about. So did other freepers. You have ignored those examples. Conveniently.

[Tamzee]

then isn't this an abuse of faith, not a way of honoring God?

Your basic premise is upside-down... you obviously don't hang out with dedicated Christians ;-) The more sincere and genuine the Christian, the more humble they are and likely to re-examine every decision assuming they may have made a mistake.

The depth of Bush's faith makes him so imperturbable

Bush is "imperturbable" not because of his confidence in his decisions, but because of his confidence in his own motivations.

BTW, I firmly believe Bush would be very open and humble about any mistakes he makes were our press not waiting eagerly to use any such admission as a club against him. And what mistakes did the non-religiously-faithful Clinton admit to that weren't first revealed by DNA and wiretaps?

[VRWC_minion]

then isn't this an abuse of faith, not a way of honoring God?

A man that truly has a calling from God will not stray from biblical principles. When he does, he needs to be corrected. That is the job of christians that are around him.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Sender, find me one example of a person on the left who finds a rabid devotion to Islam even to extremes of death a sign of character or sincerity.

I'm sure there aren't any. It's more the old "enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy that leads many on the left (even radical feminists) to overlook Islamic atrocities, entranced by all of that powerful, wonderful anti-American sentiment they see on their TV screens.

Conservatives did praise Muslim devotion ad nauseam before 9/11. Hopefully they have learned the error of their ways.

[Howlin]

are you not familiar with Bush quote, spoken at Aqaba to the Palestinian leadership: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."

Man, you are at the wrong place.

Let's see that quote. Let's have a reliable source.

And NOT from a Palestinian leader, if you don't mind.

[dead]

Sender, find me one example of a person on the left who finds a rabid devotion to Islam even to extremes of death a sign of character or sincerity.

That’s easy:

"We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." -- Bill Maher, Politically Incorrect

In addition to praising their devotion to the death, Maher was also wrong. If you sincerely believe that, by murdering tens of thousands, you will be rewarded with paradise, it takes absolutely no courage to murder those people. What it really takes is a bizarre form of greed.

[Perlstein]

Brad's Gramma's point lets me kill two birds with one stone. First, on the title of my article: writers most often don't choose their own titles, and I'm often annoyed by the ones the Village Voice puts on my articles.

Second--and anyone who joins a discussion with me on Free Republic should take note of this because I make the point again and again and again--I am one of the many, many people on the left who had contempt for Bill Clinton (for various reasons, most different from yours).

I can take care of most of the other critiques by saying this: I have an enormous respect for religion, though I am not myself religious. It frustrates me when religion is used for an excuse for existential certainty, instead of a place for a trembling sense of our inadequacy before God, our awareness that His ways are mysterious and unkownable--using religion as an excuse to be arrogant, basically.

On the matter of the War on Terrorism--not on issues like who to hire as treasury secretary--Bush has consistently refused to admit a single mistake. If you think the course of American foreign policy in the past year has been admirable, you are entitled to that opinion. But the people who told me Bush is implacable on the subject were Republican heavies like Martin Anderson (who spent two years working with Bush prior to the election) and Lyn Nofziger.

And if you read the live thread on his press conference, you will see that the preponderance of participants found Bush's most honorable quality his refusal to admit mistakes in the war on terrorism.

And many, many on that thread chalked up that quality to his faith.

Where do I say that to pray is a crime?

[Mo1]

Well gee .. nice hit piece

[Howlin]

He is quoting "notes" supposedly from Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas.

Never, ever been confirmed, so as far as I'm concerned, he's smearing Bush with nothing to back himself up.

[onyx]

My question: let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that George W. Bush did something you didn't like, that you thought was disastrous. Even in the face of bad results, he kept at it. You get frustrated, and hope he will hew back to a course you do agree with. But then you realize he will never change, because Bush thinks his course is divinely ordained.





His immigration "proposal."
He believes he's doing the right thing.
I disagree, but I respect him for his stance.
And for his faith in God.

[Perlstein]

Nothing wrong with praying for your leaders. All I said in the article was that if I had 2.8 million people praying for me, it would make me confident.

Now, there are many people who find the arrival of Bush prophesized by scripture (I even talked to one person, and found examples of others, who suspect that Bush is the Beast of scripture). This, to me, is wrong, and sacriligious. Talk about arrogance--that God's ways are an open book, and that we can simply equate our leader with that which God wishes to incarnate. Arrogant.

[onyx]

You is one great hunter.
HA!
I love it!

[Mo1]

There's nothing in this article that indicates any craziness on the part of the author, but rather (it seems) the author seems to be observing and commenting on Bush's faith and what it's meant to his presidency.

I guess you missed the Moses part huh?

[Tamzee]

Now THAT needed a Dramamine warning label.... you're right, it's awful.

[VRWC_minion]

Published on Monday, June 30, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Did Bush Say God Told Him To Go To War?
by Ira Chernus

Did God tell George W. Bush to strike at Al-Qaeda and Iraq? God only knows. Did Bush SAY that God told him to strike? We don't know yet, for sure. But we damn well better find out. Because if George W. said it, he-and all of us-could be in for some big trouble.

Here is what we know for sure, so far. Journalist Arnon Regular wrote, in the June 26 edition of Ha'aretz (Israel's most reputable newspaper), that he has minutes of a meeting among top-level Palestinian leaders, including Prime Minister Mahmoud Abas. The minutes are apparently quite detailed, because Regular wrote a long article recounting very specific conversations. The last paragraph of the article reads:

"According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"

Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English.

Clearly, we don't yet know what Bush said, or why. Just as clearly, the man has some explaining to do. And whatever the truth of the matter, he has serious problems.

First, let's give him some benefit of the doubt. Maybe he never said it. The quote could be fabricated-though it is hard to see who would gain by making it up. Maybe he did say God told him to make war, but he doesn't really believe it. He might have made it up for effect, trying to score some political points in the Middle East.

[Howlin]

Oh, look at this one:

So why were 140 members and associates of two families with close business and social ties to the Bush family—the bin Ladens, and the royal family of Saudi Arabia—allowed the only flights out of the country on those days? The monologue might get a little dry at this point—explaining all those ties: the Saudi family's bailing out Bush Jr.'s Harken Oil, for example. The racquetball games between Colin Powell and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador who brokered the favor. It might get complicated, laying out how, as ground zero was aflame and Arabs were being hustled into FBI interrogation rooms around the nation almost at random, the dozens of people most likely to be able to shed light on the suspects were ushered out of the country under FBI escort.

God, none other than Richard Clarke says that's a lie.

[dead]

And another:

"Americans can't admit that you need courage to do such a thing. For that might be misunderstood. The key thing is that we in America are convinced that it was blind, mad fanatics who didn't know what they were doing. But what if those perpetrators were right and we were not?"
-- Norman Mailer on the 911 attacks

[dirtboy]

Does it have something to do with growing up wealthy and handsome, the son of a powerful politician, breezing through Yale under the protection of his Skull and Bones confreres?

Well, John Kerry has a very similar pedigree, and when he fell off his snowboard he jumped up and called the Secret Service agent an "SOB" - so I don't think that's the causitive effect here.

[Perlstein]

That cover painting of a bloody Bush really annoyed me. It was not in keeping with my article.

Now, as for the proud troll-hunters. It's not tough. All my articles in the Voice in the past year have appeared on Free Republc, and most of the time I participate here in discussions of them. That's my profession: I'm a writer. Everything I do is in the open.

[Howlin]

You have absolute contempt for George W. Bush, I know that, from the article I just read.

What really makes it so pathetic is that your have your facts ALL wrong.

You're a fraud AND a liar.