Families of the 372nd tormented by stories of POW abuses in Iraq

Baltimore Sun ^ | Originally published April 30, 2004 | Jeff Barker

[Kaslin]

CUMBERLAND - For months, members of the 372nd Military Police Company harbored a terrible secret.

The Army Reserve unit based near here - whose service in Iraq made many of its members hometown heroes - had boasted six months ago of its credentials for a new security assignment at a prison west of Baghdad.

"We are relying heavily on our soldiers with correctional [officer] experience," said their newsletter, published in the local newspaper. "The regular Army can't touch us with experience."

But months later, the prison detail was disgraced in news reports across the world.

The Army said yesterday that 14 of the 17 soldiers implicated in an investigation of abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison are from the 372nd. They face either criminal or administrative charges.

[GraniteStateConservative]

I can't see them. Server overload. Tell me what they are.

[davidosborne]

You can call me 850-933-8511

[davidosborne]

This is a weak argument "excuse"..... Military Police Soldiers have a RESPONSIBILITY to serve in both roles.. and switch roles frequently.... I have known many fellow MP's over the years who have a difficult time transitioning from a combat role to an "officer friendly" role.. and when this is identified by your leadership you should be reassigned out of the MP corps.... NO EXCUSES....

David

[Deb]

It's too bad you chose Sy Hersh's piece in the New Yorker to make whatever point you feel you need to make. You must know Sy's background, motives and agendas. As for me I see nothing in the photos of "abuse" that indicate anything other than exactly what the female MP said, "pranks" and taking advantage of a situation for momentos.

Nothing I've seen is "egregious" or comes anywhere near being an "atrocity". Since the men had bags over their heads with their faces concealed, how can they have been humiliated? Since they didn't even know what they were being made to like they were doing, how is it abuse? Since the poses were of fake torture, how were they harmed?

It's all garbage. Just another hammer to smash the military and the Iraq war with.

I'd advise resisting the temptation to use anything from the Not in Our Name site. Not exactly patriots over there.

[Deb]

It's too bad you chose Sy Hersh's piece in the New Yorker to make whatever point you feel you need to make. You must know Sy's background, motives and agendas. As for me I see nothing in the photos of "abuse" that indicate anything other than exactly what the female MP said, "pranks" and taking advantage of a situation for momentos.

Nothing I've seen is "egregious" or comes anywhere near being an "atrocity". Since the men had bags over their heads with their faces concealed, how can they have been humiliated? Since they didn't even know what they were being made to like they were doing, how is it abuse? Since the poses were of fake torture, how were they harmed?

It's all garbage. Just another hammer to smash the military and the Iraq war with.

I'd advise resisting the temptation to use anything from the Not in Our Name site. Not exactly patriots over there.

[commish]

Sorry Deb, but you are completely wrong about this. You are looking at it from your point of view (which is I assume civilian). David and I are both Military members, and we take stuff like this seriously, even "pranks".

When you are a member of the United States Military, it is not just a job, when you put on that uniform you represent every single person in the United States and you represent the UNited States Government. ANYTHING you do is implied to be the view of the government. If you do it, then it was because the government condoned it.

As such, there are very DEFINATIVE LINES you do not cross, and these "pranks" crossed that line BIG TIME!

NOw, I will give you that this is something that should have NEVER been released to the press, it would have been best served being handled internally. AND the Army was investigating this before the pictures were released.

These pictures were DELIBERATELY released to embarass the United States, and that is exactly what they have done.

You call these "pranks", well these pranks are now inciting our enemies to greater agression --UNITED STATES MILITARY MEMEBRS ARE DYING because of these "PRANKS"! I'm sorry, but I cannot support your view. These people need to be punished to the full extent of the UCMJ. They need to be made examples of, stripped of all rank, and Dishonorably discharged.

They are a disgrace to the USA, and have shamed themselves, thier fellow soldiers, and thier country.

[davidosborne]

I used that piece becuase it was the first one to come up on a google search with the photos... The exact same quotes are made used by a number of sources..... Like I said I am not drawing an conclusions about the charges.... all I am saying is that I have PERSONAL first hand knowledge of the leadership in that unit and I will follow this investigation carefully..... I disagree with your analysis for a number of reasons... but mostly because we ARE AMERICANS.. .. and we just don't do this crap...... PERIOD... When we tolerate those who do this stuff.... as Military Police....we are just as guilty as the ones doing it... I preached this principle a number of times while I was in the 372nd and it fell on the deaf ears of the incompetent leadership.... agian this is not the time to get into the deatails...... but I assure you that before this is all said and done I will have something to say....

[rbmillerjr]

Interesting perspective.

I think the 53 page report on this is on MSNBC, I'd be interested to hear your take on this.

Apparently Active duty MI units and the CIA were there telling the MPs to do this. I'll be disappointed if they don't go after the people with "authority" such as the MI and CIA guys. Yes, the Reserve abusers deserve to be punished but it will be very easy for the US to scapegoat them and not go after the Big Fish here who were supervising this.

[davidosborne]

to be continued.......

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[davidosborne]

thanks for reading what I have say...

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Jim Mig.... said on MSNBC this morning that prison guard Private England was sent back to the USA pregnant. She was photographed having sex with another guard in front of the prisoners.

Last night Semore Hersh was on O'Reilly and said that the worst is yet to come. There are video tapes and a lot more pictures.

IMO there's no point in making excuses about this situation. We all know that the enemy is bad, but these pictures are out there in the Arab world, and they make us look like the INFIDELS we're supposed to be.

[Monty22]

I remember the iraqis shooting our prisoners in the groin and then the heads.

Seems like what our guys did wasn't much compared to that little bit of fact.

[commish]

Seems like what our guys did wasn't much compared to that little bit of fact.

True enough. In comparison, these acts are nothing compared to the atrocities committed by others.

BUT, we are not others, we have a standard that we have set and that we uphold, and as such we have set the bar to the point where we never break that standard. If we do break that standard, then no matter how small that break is, it reflects poorly on all of us. These guys have crossed the line, and deserve all the punishment that is coming to them.

The bottom line on tis is not the severity or insignificance of the acts, it is the fact that because of these actions American Troops will DIE; and for that these yahoo's need to be punished to the fullest extent of the UCMJ.

[Monty22]

I agree they need to be reprimanded. It was stupid, and only emboldens the enemy.

But I think it's really exessive to call this a warcrime or atrocity. Those terms are for 9/11 or even what they do to our troops. This is a traffic ticket in comparison.

[Deb]

Oh, you heard it on MSNBC. The same MSNBC that posted Ted Rall's cartoon showing Pat Tillman as an arab killer and idiot? And would that be the same leftwing icon, Sy Hersh on O'Reilly, who got the Pulitzer for breaking the My Lai story? Who also broke the famous story about JFK's proposed pay off to Marilyn Monroe using actual documents...that were exposed as fake?

Geez, don't you question any motives or agendas? You must buy a lot of $20 Rolex watches.

I make no excuses. I see no "abuse". I see no "atrocities". I only see international hay being made out of photos that can be read any way you want.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

I make no excuses. I see no "abuse". I see no "atrocities". I only see international hay being made out of photos that can be read any way you want.

This is the kind of propaganda that's been going on in the Arab world. The Arab world is in extreme tension, and it's added oil to the fire. We can't afford to lose more confidence on the Arab street. This is one more piece of bad news.

[MinuteGal]

Like the swallows who regularly fly back to Capistrano, John McManiac was just on TV taking advantage of the torture allegations to pontificate in his own holier-than-thou way. He never misses an opportunity to hit at the Bush administration both overtly and subtly.

He's ticked that Congress wasn't informed about the situation much earlier and he's demanding that Rumsfield appear before a congressional investigating committee.

I loath McMouth.

[Deb]

Yeah, they'll really be mad now.

[Howlin]

Seymour M. Hersh????

Why on EARTH are you sourcing Sey Hersh?

Good grief, don't you know about him???