Families of the 372nd tormented by stories of POW abuses in Iraq

Baltimore Sun ^ | Originally published April 30, 2004 | Jeff Barker

[Kaslin]

CUMBERLAND - For months, members of the 372nd Military Police Company harbored a terrible secret.

The Army Reserve unit based near here - whose service in Iraq made many of its members hometown heroes - had boasted six months ago of its credentials for a new security assignment at a prison west of Baghdad.

"We are relying heavily on our soldiers with correctional [officer] experience," said their newsletter, published in the local newspaper. "The regular Army can't touch us with experience."

But months later, the prison detail was disgraced in news reports across the world.

The Army said yesterday that 14 of the 17 soldiers implicated in an investigation of abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison are from the 372nd. They face either criminal or administrative charges.

[Kaslin]

Farther down in the article it states this

At most, the 372nd's alleged abuses of prisoners were "stupid, kid things - pranks," Terrie England said, her voice growing bitter. "And what the [Iraqis] do to our men and women are just? The rules of the Geneva Convention, does that apply to everybody or just us?"

Personally I don't think it was right what they did. The US does not act like that, but the 21 year old mother is correct imho

[vandykelastone]

I am prepared to rest my case about women in the military. They have no place here. My view has been vindicated.

[DustyMoment]

At most, the 372nd's alleged abuses of prisoners were "stupid, kid things - pranks," Terrie England said, her voice growing bitter.

Wrong, Terrie, what they did were crimes. They dehumanized these people and humiliated them. The same type of treatment would NOT be tolerated in the prisons that these people are reputed to have so much experience with, and it WILL NOT be tolerated here.

Prisoners are prisoners - NOT toys for the amusement of irresponsible, immature troops. They deserrve to have the book thrown at them. Comparisons between their treatment of our prisoners is akin to comparing apples to SUVs. We KNOW that the Muslims are barbarians but that doesn't mean that we have to join them.

[Triple Word Score]

"We are relying heavily on our soldiers with correctional [officer] experience," said their newsletter, published in the local newspaper. "The regular Army can't touch us with experience."

I'm sorry, I see that as an explanation. That greatly decreases my surprise.

America's criminal justice system makes most people worse--including the jailers.

[Kaslin]

I am prepared to rest my case about women in the military. They have no place here. My view has been vindicated

Women have been in the military for ages, and they have honorably served and still do. I do agree though, that they should not be in combat

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

Agree with everything you've posted but your tag line.... if you want to live in a civilized and industrialized society, the CFR is as necessary an evil as bowels.

(Unless of course you think the Constitution should read "Congress shall pass no law." ;0))

[Arpege92]

"I am prepared to rest my case about women in the military. They have no place here."

Really.....I seem to recall that men are involved in this scandal as well! If you can prove to me that male soldiers were being forced to join in on this type of behavior by female soldiers, then I'd say "your case" about women in the military is not closed, but still open for debate.

[wildbill]

You are exactly right. The last people you want to see taking care of military or political prisoners overseas are the people who routinely violate prisoner's rights at home.

Their entire experience is anti-prisoner and they largely go unchecked at home because of the deference of the courts.

[Salamander]

I found these photos;
http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow
[warning...they are very graphic]
I have no idea if this "means" anything or not but Allegany county votes heavily Democrat.
They're sort of the "odd men out" in Western Maryland.
[Garrett county often artificially trends that way too because of the college students/staff in Frostburg, which is not far from Cumberland]
I hope the photos are fakes because I cannot stand the thought of Marylanders doing this.
If they aren't, I hope they all get the worst punishment possible.

[Salamander]

Speaking as an ex-wife, daughter, cousin and niece of correctional officers, I'd say they're making bad bets.
Correctional officers have been utterly disempowered in the prisons and they can do -nothing-, regardless of what the prisoners may do them.
This includes physical assaults, the throwing of urine and feces [often by HIV/Hep positive inmates], specious lawsuits by prisoners and so forth.
One of my high school friends was -bitten- by an HIV+ inmate and they did nothing to the inmate for it.
He quit as a guard and has been "waiting for the other shoe to drop" for years, now. [so far, so good]
Correctional officers just may be the most repressed people on earth because they've been forced to tolerate the worst abuse you can imagine.
This isn't anything like a "defense" of their actions but the reserves should really consider this particular psychological twist before sending them somewhere they can "cut loose" all their pent-up rage.
I've seen sweet, normal, sane men become raging maniacs after just a few years of being a prison guard.
It goes with the job....:-(

[Salamander]

You'd have to see the Maryland prison system.
The inmates have ALL the rights and the guards have none.
The guards can only "file reports" when they're attacked and 9 times out of 10, some "rights groups" or another will turn it around so that the guard gets the blame for being attacked.

I have no idea what goes on in other states.
I know this as fact since my father, ex-husband and most of my male relatives work as guards.
I've seen and heard all about it for 42 years.

[LanaTurnerOverdrive]

"We are relying heavily on our soldiers with correctional [officer] experience,"

Well there's your problem. Having been a one-time guest of California's awesome penal system, I can verify that there are few people in the world more pure in their sadism than jailers. Mind you, their jobs put them in daily contact with the scum of the Earth, but the glee with which they humiliate and violate the rights of prisoners is telling. These people LOVE their "work."

[Spotsy]

I agree, this is criminal behavior, especially because it undermines the war effort and thereby endangers other soldiers.

There is no excuse for losing your humanity and deriving pleasure from vile, lewd acts.

[davidosborne]

I have personally worked with at least 2 of the soldiers named in this investigation... As you all know I am a dual certified Correctional Officer/Deputy Sheriff. I have 10years of service as an MP (6yrs ACTIVE DUTY) and now currently a Drill Sergeant in the Army Reserve. I deployed to Bosnia with the 372nd MP CO back in 2001 and was very disapointed with the leadership of that unit... If what is being reported is true.... these soliers and their leaders MUST be held accountable... and if warranted prosecuted criminally..... I will save a more detailed analysis for a later time and place.....

God Bless the REAL soldiers out there..... as President Bush said recently.. these soldiers facing charges are NOT representative of America's Army!

David C. Osborne - Autobiography

[davidosborne]

http://www.notinourname.net/war/torture-5may04.htm

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!

[commish]

I agree 100% David! As you know, I am a 22 yr vet of the USAF (And still going), and this sickens me. Especially the yahoo who claims they were not properly trained on how to handle prisoners --and this came from a former correctional officer for crissakes. I would love to hear your views on him David!

I think the administrative punishments already given to the leadership are justified--and a good number of officers careers are now over. As for the actual perps, I hope the Army throw the book at them. They have disgraced thier unit, the US Army, The United States Military, and the USA as a whole. They should all carry that shame with them for the rest of thier lives. MY President said that he is "Disgusted" and I second that motion.

I don;t care what the Iraqi's did or how they act, WE are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and WE DO NOT DO THIS KIND OF THING!

[davidosborne]

I would love to go into great detail however I don't think it is the proper time as this matter is still under investigation and I don't want it to look like I have a bone to pick with that unit.. My reputation and integrity are very important to me.. SGT Javal Davis, was SPC Davis when we were in Bosnia, and I supervised him on a number of occassions/missions...... suffice it to say I am very surprised he was was ever promoted to SGT, and would NOT have been if I was still in charge of him..... I tried unsuccessfully a number of times to get him DE-moted, I won't go into the details.... one of MANY reasons I was frustrated with the leadership of that UNIT..... what I am reading in the press, is exactly what I would expect to hear from that soldier...... HOWEVER I don't want to draw any conclusions without being able to interview the witnesses in this case.... I certainly would VOLUNTEER to assist in this investigation....

David

[boxerblues]

bump for later. I'd be interested to hear what your feeling are on this.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Our military is trained to break things and hurt people. They aren't trained to serve in civilian roles. Has Rush stopped talking about that? I recall him saying that throughout the nineties when someone else was president.