Darwin-Free Fun for Creationists

New York Times ^ | 05/01/2004 | ABBY GOODNOUGH

[Triple Word Score]

Hi! Thanks! I'm glad to be back. Been a long I don't know how many weeks since I was up to posting much.

[Ichneumon]

Hovind: "You're missing 98 percent of the population if you only go the intellectual route."

Man, you just can't make this stuff up...

[Ichneumon]

"We've been to museums, discovery centers, where you have to sit there and take the evolutionary stuff," Mr. Passmore said. "It feels good for them to finally hear it in a public place, something that reinforces their beliefs."

And hey, "feeling good" hearing whatever "reinforces your beliefs" is what it's all about, eh?

Gag.

[xm177e2]

I believe it is called a creationist museum.

After the second-to-last person leaves, the last one will become part of the exhibit.

[Ichneumon]

Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which tracks creationist programs, said traditional creationists like Mr. Hovind had in fact given up on building intellectual credibility years ago.

Yet another "more true than the way they intended it" announcement.

[Ichneumon]

At Dinosaur Adventure Land, visitors can make their own Grand Canyon replica with sand and read a sign deriding textbooks for teaching that the Colorado River formed the canyon over millions of years: "This is clearly not possible. The top of the Grand Canyon is 4,000 feet higher than where the river enters the canyon! Rivers do not flow up hill!"

Then hey, how does that river get through that canyon today, anyway? Boggle.

Plus, Hovind has clearly never heard of plate tectonics and rising strata. Sheesh. They're clearly presenting the "creation" part, but where's the "science" part?

[Trinity_Tx]

"...we can ignore what they tell us. Those atheist scientists are just trying to do the Devil's work, undermining the faith of true believers--who may have to actually think about their testimony and integrate it with physical reality..."

Or, as my mother puts it, "now you just shush about all that..." Every question or verbalization of a concept inconsistent with traditional, literal interpretation of scripture is treated as rebelliousness.

What's amazing is there is 99% of the dialogue on their part is not a critical examination or critique of the proposed evidence, but a warning about what "going there" might lead to in terms of our faith and ultimately our morality/behavior. So shush them or use any tactic of debate to deny it, because whether the science is valid or not, if too many thought that way, we'd all just turn into savages!

While I see no reason to lower my standards of morality, my faith did crumble. But, it wasn't due to belief in the evidences of common descent, but a realization that, if they are so ready to ignore truths in the realm of science, then how open are their eyes when it comes to spiritual truths?

[AmericaUnited]

Ahh, yes. Another ignorant Darwinian religious fanatic ranting...

link

... And somehow this attitude did not hinder them in their commitment to the "scientific method." In fact one of them, Sir Francis Bacon, is credited with formulating and establishing the scientific method! They seem also to have been able to maintain a proper "scientific attitude," for it was these men (Newton, Pasteur, Linnaeus, Faraday, Pascal, Lord Kelvin, Maxwell, Kepler, etc.) whose researches and analyses led to the very laws and concepts of science which brought about our modern scientific age. The mechanistic scientists of the present are dwarfed in comparison to these intellectual giants of the past. Even the achievements of an Einstein (not to mention Darwin!) are trivial in comparison. The real breakthroughs, the new fields, the most beneficial discoveries of science were certainly not delayed (in fact probably were hastened) by the creationist motivations of these great founders of modern science.

And here is a list of some of the IGNORANT, UNSCIENTIFIC, PEA-BRAINED, MORONS, according to Triple Word Score and his ilk:

TABLE I SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS
DISCIPLINE	SCIENTIST
ANTISEPTIC SURGERY	JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
CHEMISTRY	ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
COMPARATIVE ANATOMY	GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)
COMPUTER SCIENCE	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
DIMENSIONAL ANALYSIS	LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
DYNAMICS	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
ELECTRONICS	JOHN AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
ELECTRODYNAMICS	JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
ELECTRO-MAGNETICS	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ENERGETICS	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ENTOMOLOGY OF LIVING INSECTS	HENRI FABRE (1823-1915)
FIELD THEORY	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
FLUID MECHANICS	GEORGE STOKES (1819-1903)
GALACTIC ASTRONOMY	WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
GAS DYNAMICS	ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
GENETICS	GREGOR MENDEL (1822-1884)
GLACIAL GEOLOGY	LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
GYNECOLOGY	JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
HYDRAULICS	LEONARDO DA VINCI (1452-1519)
HYDROGRAPHY	MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
HYDROSTATICS	BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
ICHTHYOLOGY	LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
ISOTOPIC CHEMISTRY	WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
MODEL ANALYSIS	LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
NATURAL HISTORY	JOHN RAY (1627-1705)
NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY	BERNHARD RIEMANN (1826- 1866)
OCEANOGRAPHY	MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
OPTICAL MINERALOGY	DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
PALEONTOLOGY	JOHN WOODWARD (1665-1728)
PATHOLOGY	RUDOLPH VIRCHOW (1821-1902)
PHYSICAL ASTRONOMY	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
REVERSIBLE THERMODYNAMICS	JAMES JOULE (1818-1889)
STATISTICAL THERMODYNAMICS	JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
STRATIGRAPHY	NICHOLAS STENO (1631-1686)
SYSTEMATIC BIOLOGY	CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
THERMODYNAMICS	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
THERMOKINETICS	HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY	GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)

 

TABLE II NOTABLE INVENTIONS, DISCOVERIES OR DEVELOPMENTS BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS
CONTRIBUTION	SCIENTIST
ABSOLUTE TEMPERATURE SCALE	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ACTUARIAL TABLES	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
BAROMETER	BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
BIOGENESIS LAW	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULATING MACHINE	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
CHLOROFORM	JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM	CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
DOUBLE STARS	WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
ELECTRIC GENERATOR	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ELECTRIC MOTOR	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
EPHEMERIS TABLES	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
FERMENTATION CONTROL	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
GALVANOMETER	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
GLOBAL STAR CATALOG	JOHN HERSCHEL (1792-1871)
INERT GASES	WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
KALEIDOSCOPE	DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
LAW OF GRAVITY	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
MINE SAFETY LAMP	HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
PASTEURIZATION	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
REFLECTING TELESCOPE	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
SCIENTIFIC METHOD	FRANCIS BACON (1561-1626)
SELF-INDUCTION	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
TELEGRAPH	SAMUEL F.B. MORSE (1791-1872)
THERMIONIC VALVE	AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
TRANS-ATLANTIC CABLE	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
VACCINATION & IMMUNIZATION	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)

[Ichneumon]

And here is a list of some of the IGNORANT, UNSCIENTIFIC, PEA-BRAINED, MORONS, according to Triple Word Score and his ilk:

Look, "believers in God" (i.e., your list) is not synonymous with the sort of "don't confuse me with the evidence, all I need to know is right here in the Bible" creationist nutballs who think that dinosaurs were alive a few thousand years ago.

Having faith is fine, as long as you don't use it as an excuse to reject any observation that might raise uncomfortable questions - clearly the scientists on your list were open to new ideas, and thus were able to break new ground.

But the flat-Earth type creationists are another ball of wax entirely. They're like the classic scene from one of the old "Cheech and Chong" albums. C&C are trying to get their car started, when a street preacher wanders up and testifies, with complete sincerity and no sense of irony, "It used to be, I was all messed up on drugs. But then I found the Lord. Now, I'm all messed up on the Lord!"

[AmericaUnited]

The problem is not the Bible. It is some people's "interpretation" of what it says. Although this article is talking about Archeology, it applies here equality well.

"...
Archeology and historical documents can never prove that the Bible is inspired. Rather, the confirmation of the statements of the Bible through archeological and historical investigations provides us with powerful evidence of the historical truthfulness of the Word of God and indicates that its statements were accurately transmitted over thousands of years.

One of the greatest of these pioneer archeologists is the Jewish scholar Dr. Nelson Glueck, considered by many to be the greatest Jewish archeologist in history. Professor Glueck has written, "It is worth emphasizing that in all this work no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a single, properly understood biblical statement." Professor Glueck's statement is a powerful antidote to the pervasive skepticism and unbelief of so many of the liberal theologians who inhabit the seminaries and universities of the West. Despite the cynicism and skepticism of many liberal theologians to the accuracy of the biblical account the scientific evidence of archeology continues to confirm the accuracy of the Bible's statements. Meanwhile, liberal theologians continue to ignore this overwhelming evidence in favor of their presuppositions and strongly held prejudice against the authority, inspiration, and accuracy of the Word of God.
... "

link

[Triple Word Score]

There, there. It's okay. You can get through this night EVEN THOUGH someone, somewhere, has posted something on Free Republic that offends you. Maybe some Zoloft....

[Triple Word Score]

You made that point so well--and without the use of a single eye-searing yellow data table!

[Triple Word Score]

I know many good Christians who have post-graduate degrees in hard science. Amazingly, many of them have birthdates somewhat later than the 17th century.

Have a good night, and please tell your mother what a fine job she did educating you. She can be proud. As Heinlein said, you can probably tie your shoes all by yourself, and be trusted not to make messes in the house. :-)

[AmericaUnited]

You can get through this night

Yes, quite nicely. Went to bed at 9:30 pm, slept like a baby for 6.5 hours, and woke up at 4 am.

[AmericaUnited]

Let's shrink God down to the size of one single book, written by a select set of people whose understanding was that of shepherds and fishermen;

Don't even venture to try to ask God Himself to help you understand how it all fits together. He might answer

Talk about unscientific, illogical thinking....

You imply that the Bible was not the "inspired word of God" (A), and yet we should ask the very God who said His Word WAS inspired and IS complete truth, how the world was formed (B).

Try this "higher math" out:

IF A = FALSE, B = STUPID
IF A = TRUE, B = LOGICAL

[Triple Word Score]

Who has had custody of the text of the Bible since it was handed to humans? Who translated it? Let's not go into what you think I imply. Let's look at the history of the documents and who has decided what should be included and what left out.

I KNOW I have had prayer personally answered. It's nothing I could prove to you. But I know God answers prayers today and continues to reveal truth, both directly through revelation and indirectly by His creation of a coherent, complex, and perfectly balanced universe.

[Triple Word Score]

P.S. He generally expects us to do the work first--we'll get the answers best if we've studied very hard for the exam, then pray for help understanding the questions. We do all we can then ask Him to help us with the rest...that's true of absolutely everything in life.

If you don't have calculus and partial differential equations under your belt, though, you might as well just keep working hard at the "Thou shalt nots" because after all that's the highest level most humans reach. There's nothing wrong with that. You'll be in good company. :-)

But don't pretend you can tell me how long ago dinosaurs lived if you don't know how to run a high-res mass spectrometer. You simply don't know what you're talking about. :-) And the Bible was NEVER MEANT TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

[Lion Den Dan]

If you confine yourself to one book, you believe in a God small and weak enough that you can control Him.... ++++

Kind of like the Koran??

[Triple Word Score]

Yeah. The history of the Koran and the prophet who wrote it is really amazing...and scary. If you look at websites where various self-made authorities on Islam give advice to the common Muslim, you get the feeling that they've got their small God very well boxed-in indeed, and a very good handle on the best ways to "SHUSH" any inconvenient questions.

[PatrickHenry]

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