Posted on 04/30/2004 9:16:18 AM PDT by Check_Your_Premises
As an avid supporter of the President's Iraq policies, the last few days have been difficult for me. The number of casualties seemed to reach a "critical mass" for me. I found myself simply not caring to sacrifice anymore of our brave soldiers for Iraqi independence and democracy. Screw 'em.
I was not sure why I began to feel this way. As I said I am an avid supporter of the plan to bring an oasis of freedom and liberty to the 12th century toilet that is the middle east. It seemed to me that if we are to end terrorism we have to destroy the sources, which are the failed states and ideology of that region.
Why not? We have succeeded at such things in the past. We transformed post war Germany and Japan into thriving and peaceful democracies. Unfortunately, we have also failed at such things in the past. Of course, I am speaking of the war that Teddy Kennedy's brother got us into.
The one problem I had with liberating Iraq from Saddam's clutches is that we were removing one of the most important steps to the forming of a successful democracy. The successful overthrow of tyranny is a process that produces the type of leaders that are required to bring the successful transition from tyranny to liberal democracy. By liberating Iraq, for the Iraqis we were not allowing their "Founding Fathers" to become. It is of course worth noting that such leaders may never have been produced.
It seems to me now that the war in Iraq suffers from the same fatal flaw as the war in Vietnam. I may be speculating here, but it seems we simply cared more than the South Vietnamese, that their nation remain free. No American should be expected to die defending the home of another not willing to do the same. In the same sense we seem to care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do themselves. This is why I don't really care anymore. If they truly cared or understood their fate, they would be dying ten to our one. And in that case I think the American people would support them steadfastly. God knows I would.
So what was different about our success stories, Japan and Germany. Well we basically bombed the entire nation back into the stone age. I think their civilians were probably so glad that we weren't going to execute our own "final solution" to the "Japanese and German question", that they were willing to do whatever we said. It is also worth noting that in annhilating their armies we effectively removed any person who would be opposed to our efforts. As George Will put it recently, they "knew they were defeated".
So the question is if:
1) we care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do (something we could only have known in hindsight), and
2)we are not willing to wage total war until all opposition is removed,
than how can we possibly win there?
Well I think you see where I am getting at. General Sherman would probably agree with me. However since we do not have the will to fight this way, it is clear that we cannot win until that fact changes. What could bring such a change of will about? Unfortunately, I think we are victims of our own success in preventing further terrorist attacks. Until every man, woman, child, and leftist acutely feels that they are in grave danger of death at the hands of these murderers, America will not be ready to do what she must to win this war.
Until we are ready, maybe we should hold off on any further "imperialist" adventures in the world's excretory regions.
Semper Fidelis
MDP
Their impatience is almost palpable.
Great 'moniker' ;^); and like your 'tag' as well.
As I remember, Saddam had three or four secret police organizations which were always spying and reporting on each other, as well as against all Iraqis.
Arabs seem only to understand the pressure of a boot placed firmly on their throats, so I suggest we accommodate that need and go about pumping oil!
Myself..have worked at the front end of the oil sector for 2 plus decades.
So ya...I fabbed the oil process facilites all thru the Persian Gulf and beyond.
Prior to Gulf War1..we were building Frac process modules for Iran..seems the Russians were slant drilling under the Iranian border..draining their field.
Then the war hit...ban on shipping in the Gulf.
Granted..the consortium we were part of..several U.S. oil giants..they encured the loss as the Iranian project was cancelled..3/4 's completed.
In a bizarre twist..the same consortium had previously enabled Russia with Frac technology and were part of the *Drain the crying Iranians oil play too ..go figure huh : )
I've forwarded just a few idents here as too how vulnerable fiscally we are to Islams terror...anyone googling Oil Security reports is gonna read the mind boggling numbers swelling now in everything from Insurance coverage to contract bidding.
All these big players are not going to eat these losses..they pass down to the consumer.
U.S. funding for military projects is being scapled bigtime by the cost of the war..which runs..to protect oil transfer.
We need Missile defence...Black projects,the Navy is unhappy with a 295 ship force..the Army needs 2-3 addition divisions.
The U.S. is taking this one on the chin here..back home..how many military families needed foodbanks and social help to survive while hubby is in harms way.
Its been hard..severe..and projects to be moreso in the future.
It would be good to see Firms like Halliburton,Brown and Root kick funds in for military vehicle armor upgrades...they should damnit!....Americans are dying and being maimed for life...so that they can spin the big corporate wheel.
To some degree I too am Pissed off at this war...dissed..cuz I know who's making big coin..and where the fiscal losses will eventually end up.
But..this stand in Iraq is critical...a critical window..should we fail..Islam will extort us into ruin.
Not to worry - his quick trial and execution are being planned even as this thread develops. June 30 is when the provisional government is established, then comes their dealing with Saddam. All during the summer when the Dem. and Rep. conventions are going on.
And I don't advocate simply pulling out of Iraq. Never once did I say that, although many inferred it. I do wonder if a safe and democratic Iraq is a "doable" thing in the current context. The current context being an election year, a large and vibrant fifth column, and a population that doesn't personally and acutely feel the threat from these people.
What is your opinion, is this country going to see that goal through? I fear our fickle electorate will begin to favor a shameful and cowardly withdrawl.
I guess what I imagine with the olive drab veto, is to keep our forces there on the ground, but withdraw them from direct contact. Let the Iraqis do what they do best... butcher eachother. Our forces would be deployed and available on the ground to perform the function that the Turkish military does, which is to overthrow any government that becomes to fundamentalist.
That might not work either. I am not sure what the answer is.
History will be President Bush's ultimate judge. He's more likely to get a favorable decision if he can get a decisive win. I'm sure he's focused on the fact that the amount of favorability will be determined by just how the victory is obtained.
Some days are and will be bleak. I too get upset when things don't appear to be going well. When even one of the coalition troops are killed, wounded, return with missing limbs. I too get upset with the Iraqi people for not being proactive in fighting for their freedom. But then I remember the threats that we continuously receive from the islamic fundamentalist who want nothing more than to see me and mine dead.
This war is not only about freeing the Iraqi people, it is much more. It is about keeping us free also. In my favorite internet file I keep an article from 2002 of a threat to the American citizens that we all must die because we support our military by paying taxes and that we must convert to Islam or else.
Do I think some mistakes (decisions) were made during Iraqi freedom? Yes, I do.
We did not start this war. I remember where I was when I first heard about the first plane hitting the first WTC tower. And every since I have learned more and more about the hatred some (a lot) have for America and desire our demise and it did not start with George W. Bush taking office.
Hang in there, when Iraq is said and done it still will not be over. It will be a long hard slog.
To the islamic fundamentalist:
Rabka uhalla, your god is not great
I agree with many here that the main impediment to this is Islam, which means (guess what?) not "peace" but SUBMISSION. Now, as a Christian who has studied Islam and actually read the "holy books" (including the Hadith, which most people never even know exists), I'm convinced that Islam itself poses a problem for democracy or ANY form of government because the Koran does not really validate political government. Nevertheless, the reality is that 2 billion Muslims almost all acknowledge some government and have for centuries. So from that standpoint, I don't know that Islam (in reality) is any more of an impediment than Shintoism was to the Japanese.
That is why, though, I don't think we can allow Iraq to become a theocratic regime! And while this is not talked about much, especially by Bush, it is a KEY reason we must work for some sort of democracy (no matter how flawed) there because it undercuts the power of the Imams and Mullahs!
Funny.
I begin to wonder if Saddam's brutality was less a function of his psychopathy, rather it might be the only practical way to govern the Iraqis?
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