Saddam's WMD Have Been Found

Insight Magazine ^ | 26 April 2004 | Kenneth R. Timmerman

[clamboat]

Both senior administration officials spoke to Insight on condition that neither their name nor their agency be identified, but their accounts of what the United States has found in Iraq coincided in every major area.

Bahhahahahah!

"Yeah, we found the weapons...Don't tell anyone I told you...in fact, don't tell anyone that I work for the sewer district...just say I'm a `government employee'.

"You believe me, don't you?"

Oh man, they are really spinning now! This isn't even government spinning, this Insight Rag trying to keep the small population of true believers from losing faith. I didn't think the Wolfowitz/Perle/Cheney minions could get any more pathetic, but this proves they can.

[GailA]

btt

[TommyDale]

I saw it. I just disagree with it. September 15 to October 15 would be ideal, after the conventions are over, and candidates are set. Then the entire Democratic premise of "No WMDs Were Found!" is totally devastated. They would have ZERO credibility.

[ravingnutter]

Oct 2003 - The vial of botulinum bacteria discovered in Iraq by U.S. arms inspectors – which experts call the most poisonous substance known to man – is "a weapon of mass destruction," the State Department's top spokesman announced yesterday."Botulinum kills people, it kills people in large quantities. Botulinum is a weapon of mass destruction, yes," said State spokesman Richard Boucher," according to an Agence France-Presse report. "Anything that destroys on a massive scale is a weapon of mass destruction."

The botulinum had been stored in a vial discovered in an Iraqi scientist's refrigerator, where it had been stored for safe keeping since 1993.

Noting that the vial of live botulinum bacteria had been hidden in an Iraqi scientist's home refrigerator, Kay, testifying before Congress, said the discovery "illustrates the point ... about the difficulty of locating small stocks of material that can be used to covertly surge production of deadly weapons."

According to Agence France-Presse, the Center for Civilian Bio-defense Strategies at Johns Hopkins University says: "Botulinum toxin is the single most poisonous substance known" and "poses a major bioweapons threat because of its extreme potency and lethality, its ease of production, transport and misuse, and the potential need for prolonged intensive care in affected persons."

WND

Excerpts from a Journal of the American Medical Association article on botulinum:

Botulinum toxin is the most poisonous substance known.6-7 A single gram of crystalline toxin, evenly dispersed and inhaled, would kill more than 1 million people, although technical factors would make such dissemination difficult.

Terrorists have already attempted to use botulinum toxin as a bioweapon. Aerosols were dispersed at multiple sites in downtown Tokyo, Japan, and at US military installations in Japan on at least 3 occasions between 1990 and 1995 by the Japanese cult Aum Shinriky. These attacks failed, apparently because of faulty microbiological technique, deficient aerosol-generating equipment, or internal sabotage.

After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Iraq admitted to the United Nations inspection team to having produced 19 000 L of concentrated botulinum toxin, of which approximately 10 000 L were loaded into military weapons.22, 30 These 19 000 L of concentrated toxin are not fully accounted for and constitute approximately 3 times the amount needed to kill the entire current human population by inhalation. In 1990, Iraq deployed specially designed missiles with a 600-km range; 13 of these were filled with botulinum toxin, 10 with aflatoxin, and 2 with anthrax spores. Iraq also deployed special 400-lb (180-kg) bombs for immediate use; 100 bombs contained botulinum toxin, 50 contained anthrax spores, and 7 contained aflatoxin.22, 30 It is noteworthy that Iraq chose to weaponize more botulinum toxin than any other of its known biological agents.

More info, many links at:

JAMA

As David Kay stated...large stockpiles not required.

[TommyDale]

I saw it. I just disagree with it. September 15 to October 15 would be ideal, after the conventions are over, and candidates are set. Then the entire Democratic premise of "No WMDs Were Found!" is totally devastated. They would have ZERO credibility.

[RottiBiz]

Bookmarking bump!

[LouD]

I was thinking you might want to post it...

[shield]

Me too.

[Coop]

Oh man, they are really spinning now! This isn't even government spinning, this Insight Rag trying to keep the small population of true believers from losing faith. I didn't think the Wolfowitz/Perle/Cheney minions could get any more pathetic, but this proves they can.

It cracks me up that people like you keep showing up on these threads - the same threads that list in detail all the items that back up the Administration, U.N. and numerous countries. You simply ignore the reams and reams of data, focus on one or two sentences in a lengthy article, and you claim the spinning is coming from others.

Ever heard of the term "projection?"

[counterpunch]

Well, I just can't see "No WMDs Were Found!" is going to be a major theme for anyone except for the most radical Left.

It certainly won't be a major theme for John Kerry, who voted to invade Iraq and made numerous public statements emphatically stating that Saddam had WMDs, even writing in an op-ed in the New York Times that "the unrestrained threat of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein is unacceptable" and "There is also no question that Saddam Hussein continues to pursue weapons of mass destruction".

The fact is that John Kerry is going to avoid the subject of WMDs and the justification for war in Iraq like the plague because it hurts him far more than it hurts Bush. The vast majority of Bush's supporters support the President's decision on Iraq and believe that Saddam did indeed have WMDs. Kerry's supporters, on the otherhand, disagree with the Senator's vote for the Iraqi War Resolution by 71%.

[counterpunch]

Clamboat, Are you still a member of FR..?
I have a feeling you're account is no longer active, or will be shortly.

Sad that you managed to stay below the radar since 1999 and decided to blow your wad on this thread of all things.

[WOSG]

At Karbala, U.S. troops stumbled upon 55-gallon drums of pesticides at what appeared to be a very large "agricultural supply" area, Hanson says. Some of the drums were stored in a "camouflaged bunker complex" that was shown to reporters - with unpleasant results. "More than a dozen soldiers, a Knight-Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman, and two Iraqi POWs came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to a nerve agent," Hanson says. "But later ISG tests resulted in a proclamation of negative, end of story, nothing to see here, etc., and the earlier findings and injuries dissolved into nonexistence. Left unexplained is the small matter of the obvious pains taken to disguise the cache of ostensibly legitimate pesticides. One wonders about the advantage an agricultural-commodities business gains by securing drums of pesticide in camouflaged bunkers 6 feet underground. The 'agricultural site' was also colocated with a military ammunition dump - evidently nothing more than a coincidence in the eyes of the ISG."

It was bizarre to have those camoflaged underground stores of chemicals declared 'mere pesticide' after it was given the star treatment. So what we have is a theory this was chemical weapons precursors that could quickly be converted in a conflict. Makes sense, as Iraq's chemical weapons were not stable and subject to degradation. That means it doesnt help to make the stuff before a war breaks out.

Meanwhile, the media will fall asleep.

[WOSG]

*yawn* If Bush wanted to trap anyone he should have done so by know. It would be criminally negligent to let the 'where are the WMDs?' line go unanswered for a *year*.

Nope. What we have is an ISG not getting all the answers. Bush doesnt know, and Timmerman's evidence *is* in the Kay and others' testimony. Its just not shared by the media.

[WOSG]

you are full of it.

Nothing in this article - the biotoxin samples, the BW labs in the prisons, the missile developments, and the Karbala find of "pesticides" that look suspiciously military - is "new" to those who read Kay's reports and other ISG reports carefully.

This stuff is in the public record!!! It's hidden from view by a biased media is all!

Your screeching about "true believers" misses the whole point.

[WOSG]

"It cracks me up that people like you keep showing up on these threads - the same threads that list in detail all the items that back up the Administration, U.N. and numerous countries. You simply ignore the reams and reams of data, focus on one or two sentences in a lengthy article, and you claim the spinning is coming from others.

Ever heard of the term "projection?""

Coop, good zinger!

[R. Scott]

It is also possible that there was some deterioration of the chemicals due to lack of refrigeration. Nevertheless, these stockpiles are indeed useable as chem weaponry.

They will not be seen as “useable” to our “esteemed” media until they are educated in a field other than journalism. Far too many people believe what they are told by the news readers - after all, they couldn’t say it if it wasn’t true
What is needed is a munitions dump found with chemical/bacterial shells fully loaded, armed and clearly labeled in Arabic and English “This is a Weapon of Mass Destruction”.
Of course, they would probably claim they were American shells.

[exDemMom]

Now, I'll just sit here and hold my breath until the lamestream covers this.

Please don't. I wouldn't want you to pass out.

[Dr. Frank fan]

But, the lede of the story makes it sound like lots of WMD have been found and the press is not reporting it. That is just not true.

So you really think that all those "pesticides" were really "pesticides"?

"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist." BIG WHOOP! So they had something with which they could restart their program with.

Actually I think that IS a BIG WHOOP. Why do you think it isn't?

A key part of the rationale for this war was that (a) the sanctions were going to end sooner rather than later due to propaganda blitz and political momentum going against them; (b) this would allow Saddam to re-start any programs he had dormant.

We stopped that from happening by invading.

[bio strains] It doesn't prove they had produced WMD's and had them right before or during our invasion.

Except of course for those "pesticides". And that shell with liquid "pesticides" inside it.

Furthermore, this article has a lot of "may" and "might" speculations about what things were used for. Yes, they probably were used for weapons, but may or might is not the same as WE CAN PROVE THEY WERE.

Yes, of course. All that crap really could have been "pesticides". Are you REALLY saying you buy that?

Look, when I started to read this article, I was a skeptic like you. But come ON how many "pesticides" did Iraq really need? It stretches credulity.

I guess I would say that you're right that none of this means "WE CAN PROVE" those things are WMDs. I think one of the points of this article is that our standard of "PROOF" has become so ridiculously high that it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to "PROVE" that something we find was a "WMD". Seriously: how would we "PROVE" it?

Naysayers can ALWAYS claim such and such "WMD" is a "pesticide"....

They do not support the conclusion that Iraq had WMD's at the time of our arrival and it is A LIE to say otherwise.

Two things.

1. You seem to have skipped over the whole discussion of finding "pesticides" in drums... in camoflaged bunkers..

2. Since when did whether they had WMD's "at the time of our arrival" become the issue? So what you're saying is, if they had "WMDs" in January, moved them to Syria in February, then because we invaded in March... Saddam should've gotten a clean bill o'health? Sorry but you've moved the goalpost to a very strange place...

[Dr. Frank fan]

Have you considered that we may not be announcing the finding of WMDs because we haven't found them ALL. At least some are likely to be in the hands of the "Insurgents." Not making the announcement deters the bad guys from using them against us and the Iraqi population in general. If we "find" WMDs, they can use them.

Insightful, and something that had not previously occurred to me. Thanks!

[Tilly]

Who in the USA has the responsibility of saying whether or not something is pesticide or WMD's ... ? And, who's been making those pronouncements to the press for the past year .... ?

I've always wondered why you'd put "pesticides" in a warhead ... maybe for long distance grasshoppers?

Tilly