Strayhorn: Shut down the topless bars (Texas)

AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF ^ | Thursday, April 22, 2004 | By Ken Herman and Michelle M. Martinez

[Arrowhead1952]

Another day, another squabble as Perry-Strayhorn fight continues.

By Ken Herman and Michelle M. Martinez

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Thursday, April 22, 2004

Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn, dabbling in subject matter a tad sexier than the usual daily number crunching, said Wednesday that the state should shut down all topless bars by prohibiting them from selling alcoholic drinks.

The proposal is the latest in what have become daily Strayhorn attacks on Gov. Rick Perry's proposed school finance package. The Perry plan, aimed at drumming up more money for public schools while reducing property taxes, includes a proposed $5 admission surcharge at adult entertainment venues.

What kind of state, Strayhorn said, would depend on that kind of money to pay for schools? What kind of governor, Strayhorn asked, would propose such a thing?

"I don't want my five granddaughters growing up in a state where the governor says partnering with sexually oriented nightclubs is an acceptable way to finance their education," she said.

Strayhorn is considering challenging Perry when he seeks re-election in 2006. Both are Republicans.

Perry defended the proposed fee, noting it aligns with his goal of increasing taxes on "unhealthy" behavior. He also wants a dollar-per-pack hike in cigarette taxes.

"There are a lot of activities that are legal in the state of Texas that some individuals find to be distasteful and not appropriate," he said.

Perry noted that "the question has come up: Why don't you raise the liquor tax?

"The fact of the matter is, drinking a glass of wine is not necessarily an unhealthy activity," he said.

Perry also wants to legalize slot-machine-like devices at the state's pari-mutuel tracks. He declined to categorize gambling as an unhealthy activity.

"The state has said clearly that it is going to accept gambling as a form of entertainment to be legal in the state of Texas," he said, pointing to popular votes that legalized the state lottery and pari-mutuel gambling at horse and dog tracks.

Strayhorn was adamant in her call for legislation barring alcohol at "sexually oriented nightclubs."

"If these clubs can stay in business selling lemonade and iced tea, at least I will feel better about the safety of the dancers," she said. "Alcohol can make the meek violent, the quiet loud and the passive aggressive. People can and do get hurt in these clubs."

Strayhorn, branding Perry's proposal as a "sleaze tax," said the true goal would be to put the clubs out of business.

Perry and Strayhorn have been going at it all week, beginning Monday, when, in numbers vehemently challenged by Perry, she said his plan would produce a $10 billion deficit after five years, provide little meaningful property tax relief and do little to help schools.

Perry on Wednesday criticized Strayhorn's analysis as a "shoddy, fly-by-night" effort based on "eye-popping miscalculations."

"It is an astonishing fact that the top number cruncher in this state could be so wrong on the numbers and the facts about my plan," he said.

Said Strayhorn, "How dare this governor question the integrity of this office?"

But Perry was not alone in questioning Strayhorn's operation.

Rep. Mike Krusee, R-Round Rock and a Perry ally, admonished her staff during a meeting of the House Select Committee on Public School Finance and questioned the comptroller's estimates of how much new money each school district would receive under Perry's plan.

Krusee put Perry's plan on the table Wednesday as a starting point for the committee, which can use any part of Perry's plan -- or none of it -- as it crafts the House's school finance bill.

Strayhorn's numbers, which showed many districts would get no additional money under Perry's plan, differed substantially from a similar report issued by Perry's office.

Krusee said the report inaccurately puts the Lexington school district in his district.

"You said you had a real high degree of confidence in your numbers. You got the school districts wrong," Krusee told James LeBas, the comptroller's chief revenue estimator. "You still have a high degree of confidence in your numbers?"

LeBas stood by his numbers and defended his boss: "I'm sure the comptroller had every intention, and still does, on being helpful to the Legislature."

Strayhorn's office said it plans to release new estimates, and House Appropriations Chairman Talmadge Heflin, R-Houston, said work will be needed to reconcile any differences between the two sets of numbers.

"We don't know right now whether it's apples and oranges, pears and oranges, kumquats and bananas or whatever," Heflin said.

[BJClinton]

but not the topic of the concern in the Legislature.... Now if the Legislature initiates legislation to ban them your question merits discussion...

Good ol' deport...spot on as always.

[monday]

" Sure, but not at the expense of my dignity or morality. When someone is willing to sell those things it boils down to one thing: She is a prostitute."

Dignity and morality are relative things. Some people would say that mowing yards or collecting trash are jobs below their dignity. What is moral ,sexually speaking, to a Sunday School Teacher is different than what is moral to a nudist. Just because stripping is below your dignity or morality, you shouldn't assume the same is true for everyone.

If professions that were considered below the dignity or morality of some people were outlawed, being a politician, a car salesman, a lawyer, or a septic tank cleaner would be illegal. Note, these people would still exist, just as the stripper would still exist if stripping were outlawed. Their activities would be driven underground though, and they would become outlaws.

[steve-b]

The proposal is the latest in what have become daily Strayhorn attacks on Gov. Rick Perry's proposed school finance package. The Perry plan, aimed at drumming up more money for public schools while reducing property taxes, includes a proposed $5 admission surcharge at adult entertainment venues. What kind of state, Strayhorn said, would depend on that kind of money to pay for schools?

Grow up, Strayhorn.

Endeavoring to restore the Roman state to solvency, Vespasian imposed taxes on many commodities, among them the use of the city's public urinals. When Vespasian's son Titus objected that such a tax was undignified, Vespasian procured a handful of coins thus taken and held them up to his son's nose. "Non olet," he declared (they do not smell).

[monday]

"Hell, my sister(a smart girl) just got one of those stripper tattoos right above her butt. "

lol...smart? ok, guess we'll have to take your word on that.

[Arrowhead1952]

Having been to Texas many times over the past few years, and with a scheduled trip to Dallas this fall, I'll just note the horse already left the barn, lady.

Give it a rest, unfettered mammaries are no "clear and present danger" to the world in general, or Texas specifically.

Unfettered mammaries are no "clear and present danger" to the world in general, or Texas lakes and beaches. Plenty of topless ones on the local area lakes in the summer heat.

[Vision]

She's smart, just a little lost. We came from a broken home.

[monday]

"I'd recommend stopping yourself from believing that stripping is not selling yourself. It won't make it come any more true."

Everyone with a job sells themselves. Even the self employed sell themselves, (their time, their talents), if they didn't they wouldn't make any money. Fashion models and actors sell their looks. Is everyone a prostitute?

[Cobra Scott]

I'm with you, don't get me wrong. I just thought it was ironic that such idiocy would be considered. Oh, well, maybe it isn't that unusual, lol!

[Vision]

If your job is selling your sexuality, you're a prostitute.

I agree a model is close, but they aren't there only to arouse.

[hopespringseternal]

Just because YOU don't think it's respectable doesn't make it so.

And just because YOU say it is respectable doesn't make it so. Would you build a house next to a strip club? Would you find your wife or daughter a job stripping? If you can say yes to that I know you have neither or have no idea as to the nature of that sort of business.

I don't think you can point to any source other than your own opinion.

Thousands of years of history boils down to "just your opinion." Now that is funny. You moral relativists don't get much interaction with reality, do you? Anyone with half a brain knows that strip clubs are places for organized crime, drugs, and yes, outright prostitution.

I can see that you have no idea what you're talking about. Either that or you believe in absolutes that you have no proof of.

I do believe you should stop watching so much television. I was being charitable. Most strippers are a lot worse than that. Most are drug using prostitutes who are attractive enough to make money to support their addiction by being leered at. After a few years they have to take it to the streets to support their drug habit because no one will pay to look at them anymore.

Every stripper is not immoral just as every judge is not a paragon of virtue.

Actually, every stripper is immoral, and many judges are virtuous.

I don't see viewing the nude female body as being immoral.

So reading comprehension is a problem too? I specifically said I liked looking at the nude female body. I said that strip clubs are immoral.

[steve-b]

Alcohol can make the meek violent, the quiet loud and the passive aggressive.

So, when people get drunk they start in with the "don't worry about me, it only hurts when I stand up, sit down, or breathe, and I might be able to pay the rent this month..." etc ad nauseam?

[Ignatz]

Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn

I'm guessing Mr. Strayhorn strayed to a topless bar and Mrs. Strayhorn found out!

[TexasCajun]

Houston's economic survival is dependent on tax revenues from the 1000s of partially and totally nude drinking establishments.

Not to mention the supplemental income to the 1000s of low income peace officers. Oh, and don't forget all the tuition money that is being earned in these businesses by the talented entertainers.

I'm a pro-choice drinking establishment advocate.

[Gabz]

If professions that were considered below the dignity or morality of some people were outlawed, being a politician, a car salesman, a lawyer, or a septic tank cleaner would be illegal. Note, these people would still exist, just as the stripper would still exist if stripping were outlawed. Their activities would be driven underground though, and they would become outlaws.

Well stated.

[monday]

"If your job is selling your sexuality, you're a prostitute."

So Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Models and Victoria's Secret Models are all prostitutes huh? Ok, I guess you realize most people don't agree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

[hopespringseternal]

Dignity and morality are relative things.

No, they aren't.

Some people would say that mowing yards or collecting trash are jobs below their dignity.

Some people are immorally proud. If you don't know the difference between dignity and pride you are ill equipped to engage in debate about morality.

What is moral ,sexually speaking, to a Sunday School Teacher is different than what is moral to a nudist.

And what is moral, pacifically speaking, to a Sunday School Teacher is different than what is moral to a serial killer. That line of thinking is stupid. It grants Hitler license to kill while it censors Gandhi from criticizing him. If you don't have a better argument than that you better do some more thinking before trying to duke it out on the internet.

[Dog Gone]

Strayhorn has squandered all of her considerable political capital. She is now a joke.

I will never vote for her again, even if it means electing Fidel Castro to replace her.

[Mamzelle]

re: Texas learned its lesson when it elected Ann Richards in 1990, then showed her the door in 1994: No more gray-haired, shrill, ugly women governors!)))

Gee, I don't think Ann is ugly...

[Tall_Texan]

The discussion is entirely off-base (which is Carole Keeton McClellan RINOlander Strayhorn's intent). Taxing alcohol at stripper bars is no more encouraging them than taxing cigarettes encourages smoking or taxing gambling winnings encourages gambling.

It's all economics.

To get one side-issue out of the way, an attractive topless dancer can make three times what the waitresses at the same clubs make and the waitresses can often make three times what waitresses at normal bars make. A release a few years ago about alcohol revenue in Austin showed that five of the top six places in Austin with the highest alcohol sales were stripper bars.

Morality aside (a real challenge for some of you), this is the economic reason why some girls, even nice ones, decide to strip rather than wait tables and why some wait tables at stripper bars instead of the local watering holes. More money in less time.

It's economics.

And to tax alcohol sales at these places at a higher rate than other places is done, again, because that's where the money is.

It's economics.

Once you establish that something is taxable, be it property, sales, an activity or a place of business, all you are fighting over is how much to tax each thing to get the most economic benefit at the least harm to the economy in general.

What Perry is proposing is relief for property taxes (which has always been the backbone of school funding in this state, not the lottery or tobacco settlements), and pushing more of the burden on people who seem to have disposable income for non-healthy pleasures such as smoking cigarettes or viewing naked ladies. He could just as easily shift the burden to people who buy yachts and SUVs or people who buy tickets to sporting events or people who buy groceries. He's choosing to hit the ones the majority of society would rather see hit. If you are a non-smoking property owner who doesn't work in the topless business, this is good news for you because less of the tax burden will be put on you.

Again, it's economics.

We can debate until the cows come home about how moral or immoral some businesses are but the real issue here is economics. If you keep your eye on the ball, you won't be distracted by the strawmen being thrown up by Granny RINO.

I'm not a big fan of either Perry or Mrs. Serial Bride but to make the debate into one about topless clubs as opposed to "who is paying the taxes" is to derail a tax overhaul that clearly needs to be done.

[lonestar]

I believe her point was financing schools from liquor served in topless bars. Which is a new proposal.

I'm for a tax on junk foods. Most kids are eating too much of it. Many of the same people who stuff their kids with junk foods are the same who send them to school for free meals.

I'm sick and tired of seeing obese people riding around in electric carts at the grocery store with baskets full of junk foods. Last week I got caught between two who were trying to decide which way to go. I felt like I was on the freeway in Houston. Couldn't move. Neither of them was over 30.

They are as big a drain on the healthcare system as smokers.