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Difficult church-state issues pose dilemma for Catholic NJ Governor McGreevey
The Record of Hackensack, ake The Bergen Record ^
| 04.20.04
Posted on 04/20/2004 1:56:52 PM PDT by Coleus
click here to read article
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1
posted on
04/20/2004 1:56:55 PM PDT
by
Coleus
To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
`
2
posted on
04/20/2004 2:00:01 PM PDT
by
Coleus
(What were Ted Kennedy and his nephew doing on Good Friday in 1991? Getting Drunk and Raping Women)
To: Coleus
If you want to call yourself a Catholic, then be and act as a Catholic.
There is nothing in the Catholic faith that isn't true and doesn't serve the common good.
And if you don't agree with or practice the articles of your Faith, Don't be a hypocrite.
Since personal accountability is the new buzzword, remember you are responsible for "choosing" to leave by not agreeing and living by its tenets.
The Catholic Church and its authorities will never leave you, they just will wait and continue to pray for your repentance and salvation.
But don't be surprised when Catholic leaders and lay people
speak out about your scandalous behavior, we all love the sinner but we abhor the sin.
To: Coleus
Abortion is not a "Separation of Church and State" issue. Legal prohibitions of abortion do not involve the imposition of a Catholic dogma on non-Catholics. Abortion was illegal in America prior to 1973 and that was not at all because the Vatican controlled the U.S. The "Catholic" part of the abortion matter which is a religious matter of sacramental discipline, canon law, and moral theology declares that abortion is a grave mortal sin which prevents someone from receiving Communion. In fact, they are automatically excommunicated.
The Church also teaches, according to natural law ethics, that abortion is the unlawful taking of a human life. Catholics have a moral and civic responsibility to defend innocent life both in their personal lives and as a matter of public policy and law. This is not some esoteric mystery of mystical theology limited only to Catholics.
It is, therefore, a woeful error when liberals like John Kerry or this moronic character from New Jersey suggest that they must observe some "Separation of Church and State" dogma of modern secular humanism on things like abortion and stem cells. Opposing such grotesque atrocities does not require invocation of theological mysteries of sectarian dogma.
The absurd logic of the liberal positions seems to be that if the Catholic Church prohibits something, it MUST be legal in America. Well, the Church teaches that stealing, murder, and rape are morally wrong and grave mortal sins. Shall we make them legal so that the secular humanist totalitarians in America can exercise their rights to be free from "Catholic" ethical teachings?
To: Coleus
Play a little tap music, maestro!
What a conundrum these libs are in with Catholic doctrine.
Just gotta love it . . . .
5
posted on
04/20/2004 2:19:45 PM PDT
by
BluSky
(“Don’t make me come down there.”)
To: Coleus
This whole "Seperation of Church and State" nonsense is just an excuse for politicians who believe that, in order to get elected, they must not espouse any personal moral principles at all lest they offend some potential constituent or group, e.g. terrorists, child molesters, sodomites etc.
6
posted on
04/20/2004 2:21:36 PM PDT
by
Chuckster
(Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
To: biblewonk
(from the article)
When he refers to himself as a devout Catholic and supports legislation and programs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Father and the bishops, he is not a devout Catholic," Bishop John M. Smith told a crowd Not-to-mention-the-Word-of-God ping.
7
posted on
04/20/2004 2:27:35 PM PDT
by
newgeezer
(fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. words mean things!)
To: Coleus
"With all respect, you know, the church also one time condemned Galileo, and then recanted," McGreevey said.I bet that everything McGreevey thinks he knows about Galileo he learned from Frank Kissling.
To: A.A. Cunningham; Coleus; NYer; Polycarp IV; narses; AAABEST
"With all respect, you know, the church also one time condemned Galileo, and then recanted," McGreevey said. McGreevey's pronouncement has to be about the most absurdly moronic to date. That he invoked the imagery and jargon of anti-Catholic bigotry speaks volumes about this slimeball's need for serious help in understanding the Catholic faith.
To: Coleus
If the esteemed kerry wants to start his own church then the catholic hierarchy ought to let him. He is making public his views--not just giving ceasar his due.
10
posted on
04/20/2004 2:37:30 PM PDT
by
freeangel
(freeangel)
To: freeangel
Kerry and McGreevey are trying to create their own religion, a new church which is not in fact the Catholic Church. That is not the role for politicians.
Kerry seems to think that his positions on life issues are protected by this secular humanist "Separation of church & State" mythology. That is not at all what the constitution provides for. The U.S. Constitution provides for the "free exercise of religion." Kerry has a right to join any cult he wishes. The Church also has a right, via the "free exercise of religion" to declare how Catholics must behave and who is a "Catholic" in good standing. Neither Kerry nor McGreevey meet that standard. They are in grave error.
To: Coleus
There is no church/state issue to it. He is not a Catholic, but wants to call himself Catholic.
He has cognitive issues. The Church needs to make his rejection official.
12
posted on
04/20/2004 2:59:38 PM PDT
by
broadsword
(The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for Democrats to get elected.)
To: Coleus
It is not in the least a "church/state" issue. The Church has a constitutional right to say anything it wants in the public square, to say that it expects those who call themselves devout Catholics to act in accordance with Catholic teachings, and to call all Catholics to account for their actions, and even to kick people out of the Church if they flagrantly deny and act contrary to Church teachings. McCreevey is free to follow Catholic teachings or not, as he sees fit.
To: broadsword
And that is the point that should be emphasized - a cheesy, sleazy politician who wants to be identified publicly as a "Catholic" without actually following Catholic teachings. The church should not allow that and they need to come up with a policy for kicking such liberal types out or subjecting them to public rebuke and admonishment.
15
posted on
04/20/2004 4:28:28 PM PDT
by
Coleus
(What were Ted Kennedy and his nephew doing on Good Friday in 1991? Getting Drunk and Raping Women)
To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Right on. According to McGreevey, Kerry, Kennedy, etc., since the Catholic Church opposes gassing Jews, they are OBLIGED, in order to keep Church and State separate, to favor the gassing of Jews. We can't have Popes and bishops dictating to politicians! And Fr. McBrien can go on O'Reilly and explain that McGreevey, Kerry, and Kennedy all agree that gassing Jews is morally wrong, but that voting to gas Jews is a legitimate way to IMPLEMENT the Church's teaching that gassing Jews is wrong while respecting the values of pluralism and democracy.
To: Coleus
Did not read bump
17
posted on
04/20/2004 9:40:24 PM PDT
by
fatima
(My Granddaughter Karen is Home-WOOHOO We unite with all our troops and send our love-)
To: Arthur McGowan
If one follows the outrageous absurdity of the twisted logic and rhetoric of secular humanist "Separation of Church & State" mythology, one would have to conclude that ANYTHING the Catholic Church prohibits should be legal for modern liberal Americans. A great intensity of pro-abortion propaganda is added by suggesting they are somehow "empowering" women (UGGGHHHHHHH !!!)by keeping them liberated from church-based moral teachings on reproduction and sexuality.
These ultra-liberal types, like Kerry et al., seem to think that because, AS CATHOLICS, they are tought by the church to oppose abortion on grave moral grounds that they are somehow obligated to support abortion so as to be seen as favoring the ultra-liberal interpretation of "abortion rights." Now, that is VERY twisted, very sick, and very stupid.
Let's expand that insanity, shall we? Kerry might continue, "While I'm personally opposed to gang rape, I don't want to impose my religious beliefs on others..."
To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Agitate; Alouette; Annie03; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; ...
McGreevey's a Catholic? Yeah right, and I'm Amish!ProLife Ping!
If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.
19
posted on
04/21/2004 9:44:40 AM PDT
by
Mr. Silverback
(Dave Chapelle for UN Ambassador!)
To: Coleus
The Bible says Jesus suggested a distinction between the concerns of Caesar, the head of state, and those of God. Perhaps Mr. Gohlke (sp?) would like to provide a chapter and verse on this?
20
posted on
04/21/2004 9:48:01 AM PDT
by
FourPeas
(We can't all be heroes because someone has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by. - Will Rogers)
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