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Difficult church-state issues pose dilemma for Catholic NJ Governor McGreevey
The Record of Hackensack, ake The Bergen Record ^ | 04.20.04

Posted on 04/20/2004 1:56:52 PM PDT by Coleus

Difficult church-state issues pose dilemma for McGreevey

 
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

The Bible says Jesus suggested a distinction between the concerns of Caesar, the head of state, and those of God.

New Jersey's current Caesar, Governor McGreevey, has repeatedly confronted that conflict. An avowed Catholic and a product of parochial schools, he has often supported policies that collide with church teachings - from his stance in favor of abortion rights to his active advocacy of stem-cell research. With increasing boldness, Catholic leaders have taken critical notice.

The governor's differences with the church started even before he took office more than two years ago. But they reached a particularly personal pitch last month, when the bishop of the Trenton Diocese went beyond objecting to McGreevey's policies and questioned his religious devotion.

"When he refers to himself as a devout Catholic and supports legislation and programs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Father and the bishops, he is not a devout Catholic," Bishop John M. Smith told a crowd preparing for an abortion protest, according to the diocesan newspaper. "He cannot compromise what it means to be a Catholic. I speak, as your bishop, for the devout Catholics of the Diocese of Trenton. Jim McGreevey does not."

The touchiness of the issue was evident in both sides' reluctance to discuss it further. Despite the reported vehemence of the bishop's remarks, a spokeswoman for the diocese said last week that he would not have more to say about the governor. The governor also hesitated to say much about the bishop, but he eventually agreed to talk about how he squares religion with policy.

"I love my faith," the governor said in an interview. "I draw great strength from it, but how you translate its principles and values into a dynamic civil society requires reflection."

McGreevey is only one of many Catholic elected officials who have had to reflect on that. The archbishop of St. Louis, Raymond Burke, recently said he would not serve communion to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, another professed Catholic who has taken positions contrary to the church's teachings.

Former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo, denounced by church leaders for favoring abortion rights, met the issue head-on in a 1984 speech. Cuomo argued that he and other Catholic politicians should follow church doctrine personally but should not use the law to impose it on others. As such, he argued, he could personally oppose abortion while supporting its legality.

McGreevey articulated a similar principle last week, saying the government has to allow for more than one religious view.

"You have to be careful, especially when different individuals and families come to different conclusions about what's appropriate," he said.

The governor, a former altar boy who attends Mass regularly, described his faith as distinct from his position.

"My faith is intensely personal, and it's something we celebrate as a family, and it's between us," he said. "You struggle to find an appropriate dividing line between what you do as a family and what you do publicly."

Although McGreevey said his belief "plays a role in under girding" his decisions, the Roman Catholic Church has consistently demanded more of its flock. Last year, the Vatican issued a doctrinal note that allowed little room for interpretation as to the obligations of Catholics in government. It is clearly at odds with the governor's position.

"Those who are directly involved in lawmaking bodies have a grave and clear obligation to oppose any law that attacks human life," said the document, which focused particularly on abortion and euthanasia. "For them, as for every Catholic, it is impossible to promote such laws or to vote for them."

The Rev. Donald P. Sheehan, of St. Matthew's Roman Catholic Church in Ridgefield, said church doctrine does not allow a separation of the two realms.

"I've always been uncomfortable with people saying politics and religion shouldn't mix," Sheehan said. "What is that? Politics is the real world and religion is an hour on Sunday morning? Are we running a sideshow?"

There is debate within the church. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the archbishop of Washington, D.C., suggested in a Fox News interview last week that he might not go as far as withholding communion from a wayward Catholic politician. New Jersey dioceses allow leaders in conflict with teachings to attend church and receive communion, said William F. Bolan, executive director of the New Jersey Catholic Conference. But they bar them from serving in honorary roles such as ushering.

Church leaders have convened a task force to study the questions surrounding Catholics in politics. The head of the task force, Bishop John Ricard of Pensacola-Tallahassee, Fla., noted in a preliminary report, "We've all heard Catholic political leaders insisting, 'I'm personally opposed to abortion, but can't impose my convictions on others,' when many public choices involve acting on our convictions even when others disagree."

The church has had public differences with McGreevey's political convictions for years. Shortly before he defeated Republican Bret Schundler in 2001, the state's bishops issued a letter urging Catholics to vote for "candidates who respect and sustain the dignity of all human life" -effectively endorsing Schundler, who opposes abortion in most cases.

More recently, the bishops objected to a bill that allows same-sex couples to form "domestic partnerships" affording some of the benefits of marriage. McGreevey did not initiate the bill, but he supported it and signed it into law in January.

The governor's most active defiance of doctrine has been on the subject of stem-cell research, which explores the use of embryonic cells in treating conditions such as spinal cord injuries, Alzheimer's disease, and diabetes. McGreevey has not only helped make the research legal in New Jersey, but has set aside $6.5 million in public spending on it this year.

The state's bishops issued a statement in February saying the grant raised "profound moral questions, not the least of which is whether state government should subsidize and force morally opposed taxpayers to subsidize research that requires the destruction of human life."

McGreevey said last week that he was acting according to another imperative, based partly on his discussions with people -some of them religious -who hope the research will cure ailing loved ones.

"I would argue that compassion and decency require us to alleviate those who are suffering today," he said.

The governor may be on much more solid ground with voters than he is with the church.

An estimated 3.4 million Catholics live in New Jersey, making up about 39 percent of the population. Still, polls have shown an overwhelming majority of state residents support both abortion rights and stem-cell research. A 2001 poll by Quinnipiac University found that, even among Catholics, 61 percent supported stem-cell research and 41 percent supported abortion rights.

Those who are vehement abortion opponents are not likely McGreevey voters in any case, said Joseph Marbach, chairman of the political science department at Seton Hall University. The American tradition of church-state separation and New Jersey's relative liberalism are both on the governor's side, he said.

"I don't know that voters, even Catholic voters, are going to take the bishop's proclamation to heart," Marbach said of Smith's recent criticism. "I think there could be more backlash against the bishop than against McGreevey. It's the kind of thing where being criticized might pay off for the governor."

Bolan, of the Catholic Conference, noted that the church's relationship with McGreevey is not all fire and brimstone. He said the church agrees with him on his efforts to reform the state's child protection agency and provide support for non-public schools, for instance. And he said the bishops had been just as prone to criticize former Gov. Christie Whitman, a Protestant who also favored abortion rights.

"It's certainly more complicated, given that the governor is a Catholic," Bolan added. "It looks different to the world ... But we call each issue as we see it."

The governor suggested some potential for reconciliation when asked about stem-cell research in a February television interview.

"With all respect, you know, the church also one time condemned Galileo, and then recanted," McGreevey said.

The church tried Galileo Galilei for heresy in 1633 and annulled his conviction in 1992. So if the governor fares as well as the Italian astronomer, the church might agree with him in 359 years.

E-mail: gohlke@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; benny; catholic; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; civilunions; cloning; gayunions; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexualunions; jamesemcgreevey; mcgreevey; newjersey; nj; prolife; stemcells
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1 posted on 04/20/2004 1:56:55 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
`
2 posted on 04/20/2004 2:00:01 PM PDT by Coleus (What were Ted Kennedy and his nephew doing on Good Friday in 1991? Getting Drunk and Raping Women)
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To: Coleus
If you want to call yourself a Catholic, then be and act as a Catholic.

There is nothing in the Catholic faith that isn't true and doesn't serve the common good.

And if you don't agree with or practice the articles of your Faith, Don't be a hypocrite.

Since personal accountability is the new buzzword, remember you are responsible for "choosing" to leave by not agreeing and living by its tenets.

The Catholic Church and its authorities will never leave you, they just will wait and continue to pray for your repentance and salvation.

But don't be surprised when Catholic leaders and lay people
speak out about your scandalous behavior, we all love the sinner but we abhor the sin.
3 posted on 04/20/2004 2:15:54 PM PDT by victim soul
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To: Coleus
Abortion is not a "Separation of Church and State" issue. Legal prohibitions of abortion do not involve the imposition of a Catholic dogma on non-Catholics. Abortion was illegal in America prior to 1973 and that was not at all because the Vatican controlled the U.S. The "Catholic" part of the abortion matter which is a religious matter of sacramental discipline, canon law, and moral theology declares that abortion is a grave mortal sin which prevents someone from receiving Communion. In fact, they are automatically excommunicated.

The Church also teaches, according to natural law ethics, that abortion is the unlawful taking of a human life. Catholics have a moral and civic responsibility to defend innocent life both in their personal lives and as a matter of public policy and law. This is not some esoteric mystery of mystical theology limited only to Catholics.

It is, therefore, a woeful error when liberals like John Kerry or this moronic character from New Jersey suggest that they must observe some "Separation of Church and State" dogma of modern secular humanism on things like abortion and stem cells. Opposing such grotesque atrocities does not require invocation of theological mysteries of sectarian dogma.

The absurd logic of the liberal positions seems to be that if the Catholic Church prohibits something, it MUST be legal in America. Well, the Church teaches that stealing, murder, and rape are morally wrong and grave mortal sins. Shall we make them legal so that the secular humanist totalitarians in America can exercise their rights to be free from "Catholic" ethical teachings?

4 posted on 04/20/2004 2:16:41 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
Play a little tap music, maestro!

What a conundrum these libs are in with Catholic doctrine.

Just gotta love it . . . .
5 posted on 04/20/2004 2:19:45 PM PDT by BluSky (“Don’t make me come down there.”)
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To: Coleus
This whole "Seperation of Church and State" nonsense is just an excuse for politicians who believe that, in order to get elected, they must not espouse any personal moral principles at all lest they offend some potential constituent or group, e.g. terrorists, child molesters, sodomites etc.
6 posted on 04/20/2004 2:21:36 PM PDT by Chuckster (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
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To: biblewonk
(from the article) When he refers to himself as a devout Catholic and supports legislation and programs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Father and the bishops, he is not a devout Catholic," Bishop John M. Smith told a crowd

Not-to-mention-the-Word-of-God ping.

7 posted on 04/20/2004 2:27:35 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. words mean things!)
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To: Coleus
"With all respect, you know, the church also one time condemned Galileo, and then recanted," McGreevey said.

I bet that everything McGreevey thinks he knows about Galileo he learned from Frank Kissling.

8 posted on 04/20/2004 2:30:52 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham; Coleus; NYer; Polycarp IV; narses; AAABEST
"With all respect, you know, the church also one time condemned Galileo, and then recanted," McGreevey said.

McGreevey's pronouncement has to be about the most absurdly moronic to date. That he invoked the imagery and jargon of anti-Catholic bigotry speaks volumes about this slimeball's need for serious help in understanding the Catholic faith.

9 posted on 04/20/2004 2:36:01 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
If the esteemed kerry wants to start his own church then the catholic hierarchy ought to let him. He is making public his views--not just giving ceasar his due.
10 posted on 04/20/2004 2:37:30 PM PDT by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: freeangel
Kerry and McGreevey are trying to create their own religion, a new church which is not in fact the Catholic Church. That is not the role for politicians.

Kerry seems to think that his positions on life issues are protected by this secular humanist "Separation of church & State" mythology. That is not at all what the constitution provides for. The U.S. Constitution provides for the "free exercise of religion." Kerry has a right to join any cult he wishes. The Church also has a right, via the "free exercise of religion" to declare how Catholics must behave and who is a "Catholic" in good standing. Neither Kerry nor McGreevey meet that standard. They are in grave error.

11 posted on 04/20/2004 2:48:08 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
There is no church/state issue to it. He is not a Catholic, but wants to call himself Catholic.

He has cognitive issues. The Church needs to make his rejection official.
12 posted on 04/20/2004 2:59:38 PM PDT by broadsword (The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for Democrats to get elected.)
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To: Coleus
It is not in the least a "church/state" issue. The Church has a constitutional right to say anything it wants in the public square, to say that it expects those who call themselves devout Catholics to act in accordance with Catholic teachings, and to call all Catholics to account for their actions, and even to kick people out of the Church if they flagrantly deny and act contrary to Church teachings. McCreevey is free to follow Catholic teachings or not, as he sees fit.
13 posted on 04/20/2004 3:21:01 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: broadsword
And that is the point that should be emphasized - a cheesy, sleazy politician who wants to be identified publicly as a "Catholic" without actually following Catholic teachings. The church should not allow that and they need to come up with a policy for kicking such liberal types out or subjecting them to public rebuke and admonishment.
14 posted on 04/20/2004 3:23:14 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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Kerry, Candidate and Catholic, Creates Uneasiness for Church

A Primer on Canon 915 Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion

Excommunicate Kerry Website

Catholics Against Kerry

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life

Living the Gospel of Life:
A Challenge to American Catholics

A Statement by the Catholic Bishops of the United States

Faithful Citizenship:
Civic Responsibility for a New Millennium

Canon Law and Abortion
Sign Petition: To  Excommunicate McGreevey and Kerry
The Gospel of Life--Evangelium Vitae
Herod's Heroes, Sign Petition

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
 

Catechism on Homosexuality

Ex Corde Ecclesiae
APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFFJOHN PAUL II ON CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES

Ex Corde EcclesiaeThe Application to the United States

15 posted on 04/20/2004 4:28:28 PM PDT by Coleus (What were Ted Kennedy and his nephew doing on Good Friday in 1991? Getting Drunk and Raping Women)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Right on. According to McGreevey, Kerry, Kennedy, etc., since the Catholic Church opposes gassing Jews, they are OBLIGED, in order to keep Church and State separate, to favor the gassing of Jews. We can't have Popes and bishops dictating to politicians! And Fr. McBrien can go on O'Reilly and explain that McGreevey, Kerry, and Kennedy all agree that gassing Jews is morally wrong, but that voting to gas Jews is a legitimate way to IMPLEMENT the Church's teaching that gassing Jews is wrong while respecting the values of pluralism and democracy.
16 posted on 04/20/2004 9:29:29 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Coleus
Did not read bump
17 posted on 04/20/2004 9:40:24 PM PDT by fatima (My Granddaughter Karen is Home-WOOHOO We unite with all our troops and send our love-)
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To: Arthur McGowan
If one follows the outrageous absurdity of the twisted logic and rhetoric of secular humanist "Separation of Church & State" mythology, one would have to conclude that ANYTHING the Catholic Church prohibits should be legal for modern liberal Americans. A great intensity of pro-abortion propaganda is added by suggesting they are somehow "empowering" women (UGGGHHHHHHH !!!)by keeping them liberated from church-based moral teachings on reproduction and sexuality.

These ultra-liberal types, like Kerry et al., seem to think that because, AS CATHOLICS, they are tought by the church to oppose abortion on grave moral grounds that they are somehow obligated to support abortion so as to be seen as favoring the ultra-liberal interpretation of "abortion rights." Now, that is VERY twisted, very sick, and very stupid.

Let's expand that insanity, shall we? Kerry might continue, "While I'm personally opposed to gang rape, I don't want to impose my religious beliefs on others..."

18 posted on 04/20/2004 10:13:19 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Agitate; Alouette; Annie03; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; ...
McGreevey's a Catholic? Yeah right, and I'm Amish!

ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

19 posted on 04/21/2004 9:44:40 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Dave Chapelle for UN Ambassador!)
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To: Coleus
The Bible says Jesus suggested a distinction between the concerns of Caesar, the head of state, and those of God.

Perhaps Mr. Gohlke (sp?) would like to provide a chapter and verse on this?

20 posted on 04/21/2004 9:48:01 AM PDT by FourPeas (We can't all be heroes because someone has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by. - Will Rogers)
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