Thoughts on border control

Vanity | April 17, 2004 | Doug Loss

[Doug Loss]

I was just talking to another volunteer in our Pat Toomey for US Senate campaign here in Pennsylvania, and the discussion turned to President Bush's immigration reform and border control proposals. Neither of us were particularly happy with the proposals, but neither of us had much better ideas, either. But in talking it out, we came up with what I think is an intriguing idea that I'd like to get some of your thoughts on. Here it is.

It seems obvious to us that short of erecting a DMZ across our entire southern border we're not going to be able to stop the flow of people coming into the country from Mexico. While some may think that a desirable response to the problem, realistically it will never happen.

So we're going to have people coming in. How should we approach this? Currently, there is (I think) a quota on how many people are legally allowed to immigrate each year from each country. And the right to legally immigrate isn't all that easy to obtain and takes a fair amount of time to get, which is why so many cross the border illegally.

Here is our idea. When any foreign national comes across the border at a regular crossing, they are interviewed by US border guards. They're asked, "Do you intend to become a US citizen and to reside in the US permanently?" If the answer is yes, they are put into a program of citizenship training (which would include regular checks to ensure that they are working toward citizenship) and let in. Yes, I know, this would eliminate immigration quotas. Folks, those don't mean anything anyway. This way, we would get them working toward becoming full-fledged Americans rather than a shadow population of illegals.

If they answer no, they would be asked, "Do you intend to work in the US for a limited time?" If they answer yes to this, they would be let in under a guest worker program similar to what the President proposed. Let's say it ran for a three year period. If during that period they decided to become a US citizen, they could start attending citizenship classes and convert their status to the first one mentioned here.

If they answer no to the work question, they would have to show a tourist visa (or obtain one from the interviewer, since we're letting everyone in anyway) for a limited time, or perhaps get a day pass if they just have some short-term business to conduct in the US.

The thrust of this proposal is that we will have these people coming in no matter what we do. I think it would be better to have them come through regular crossings and be documented and pushed toward becoming true American citizens rather than having a large group of frightened, illegal, non-Americans hiding in the recesses of our society.

I expect to get some pretty emphatic rejections of this idea, but I hope to get some thoughtful responses too. Let's hear from you!

[Doug Loss]

Pat Toomey will make an excellent Senator for the next administration.. He has no idea about the current costs to taxpayers of illegal aliens in the US and appears to think that bringing more in will stem the flow.

A clarification. This idea is mine and mine alone. I have no idea if Pat Toomey would agree with me or not. I just mentioned him at the beginning to get his name in front of the voting public one more time. :-)

[Doug Loss]

Your assuming illegals are going to ask to come in?

When it's easier, cheaper, and less dangerous than coming across the border illegally? Yes, I do. These people don't particularly want to be illegal, they want to be in the US.

[Doug Loss]

If China could build a Great Wall in the, I don't remember when, early somethings, with primitive technology and equipment ... why can't we?

You may not know this, but the Great Wall was a failure. The Mongols conquered China anyway.

[brydic1]

Hopefully the 911 Commission will not want to be blamed for future attacks on the US arising from illegal aliens crossing our land borders and they will actually recommend the "politically incorrect" and demand action to stop illegal aliens from entering the country by whatever means necessary.

If they do so, it will be very difficult for the Administration or the Congress to risk failing to comply. Those that refuse to take action would be fully responsible for what I believe is an inevitable attack from someone crossing our land borders.

[Doug Loss]

Tell you what; take all the curtains off your windows (so folks can see what a nice place you have), the locks off you doors (allows free access like your border), and place a 'Welcome' sign on the front walkway in South Williamsport, PA. Let us know what kind of a 'home' you have in a month, if it's still standing.

That's a false analogy. A better one would be that when people come to our house, we welcome them in and see how long they're going to stay. If they don't agree to abide by our rules, we can ask them to leave, throw them out, or call the police. Your analogy is pretty close to the situation now! If you don't think there's essentially free access on our border now, you haven't been there.

[Maigrey]

How would you enforce the protocols? Make the INS stronger for the people who broke their visas?

[jocon307]

"What a terrific idea!"

TY, TY,LOL, If only Mr. H & I ruled the world!

[sixmil]

Sounds like you want to put the immigrants in charge of immigration. If we simply cut off welfare for illegals and start nailing employers that hire them, they will have no reason to come here.

[drypowder]

I agree that there is no easy answer in how best to deal with the illegal immigration problem. I feel sorry for those who are in desperation to just survive but the complicity of the Mexican gov in moving their uneducated and impoverished hordes into the US is, in my mind, nothing less than a declaration of war against the US. I say this because the US culture, as we use to know it, has changed and will continue to change as the immigration from the south continues. California is an excellent example of that fact. You may not believe a wall or some kind of barrier across our southern border will work as a viable deterrent but it is the next best thing to out right killing the intruders. Our immigration laws should be strictly enforced, that is the only way to send the message to the Mexican gov and to the people who are planning to come in illegally that "this country is not ripe for the taking", or should I say, "the over taking" as is currently their ploy.

[KC_for_Freedom]

The problem with Mexicans coming across is the Mexican Government. Why don't we have some type of Marshall Plan for Mexico? We need to rid ourselves of all the Marxist scumbags that are running that country into the ground. The Mexicans (Indians) would not be coming over here if it wasn't so damn bad over there. We should rally Mexican Ex-patriots in this country to go back and declare independence. We could threaten Mexico with the Annexation of it's northern states.

You have it right. If (and this is a big if) we are not willing to wall the border and deport the illegals, then we should attack at the source of the problem. US citizens cannot own property or businesses in Mexico and the Mexican leadership is extorting the people, keeping jobs low paying and the area poor.

The US could change this, with US financing and investment. (As if Mexico were a separate state). Many US citizens would be happy to winter in Mexico if the country had modern facilities and safe streets. Do this and the immigration will stop as jobs and families find better futures in their own country.

[usadave]

These people don't particularly want to be illegal, they want to be in the US.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world also want to come to the United States. That's why we have immigration laws and quotas, to make immigration an orderly and measured process. If we implemented your idea, we might as well get rid of our current immigration laws because foreigners around the world wouldn't even waste their time filling out the necessary paperwork to come here. They would simply hop on the next plane to the US, and after arriving, they would say that they're planning on staying and want to become a US citizen.

[Jack Armstrong]

This idea of yours to grill each "dry-back" as they drive through the border is insane!
Being from Pennsylvania you have no concept of the traffic at the border in San Diego or El Paso.
There is no way to subjectively survey the mass of aliens pouring in across in cars. It is rediculous to think a government employee would bother.
///"Do you intend to become a US citizen and to reside in the US permanently?" ////"Do you intend to work in the US for a limited time?"///
While a thousand US citizens wait in line to drive back into their own country? How about we have each Mexican fill out a 40 page questionaire right there at the border crossing? We would be much better off placing them in a job that meets their skill level. We better ask what is their highest education level, or if they paln on continuing education in a state run college. We should give them an FCAT and SAT tests as they cross into our Nation.
Is there any room in your brilliant plan for the criminals who will answer with lies?
Is there any way of finding out if these aliens have potentially harmful dieases?
Will we ask if they are pregnant and only seeking asylunm for their soon to be American babies?
Should we give them a MasterCard application as well?
How about signing them up for college entrance and food stamps right there while they sit in there car?
Do we also have them fill out a form to join the democratic party & register to vote for Kerrey?
Don't forget to ask if they have any medical problems!
It might well be a good idea to have them apply for HUD!
We need to give them the option to sign up for AFLAC or Blue Cross too!
They will need a cell phone don't you think? Perhaps the guy with the over coat can hand them an ALLTEL digital Camera phone as they drive thru and ask them if you can hear me now?! They will need an adress in order to get a valid Winn Dixie Customer Reward card! Don't forget to ask them if they golf! They will need to have membership at the local Country Club Too!
///They would have to show a tourist visa ///
I don't think the ones packed into the tomato truck at midnight will be worring about showing anyone a valid temporary tourist visa.
---- Doug Loss---- How are you going to force criminals to obey the law? It is much easier to sneak in un noticed and avoid all the paper red tape insanity!
Illegal aliens are criminals! Criminals must be permanently identified with a microchip implant upon deportation. Further infractions will become more severe. All illlegal
criminals should be treated as hostile enemies until the war on terror is over!
This will force all the soft Americans who have warm feelings for these offenders to get tough on the Mexican Criminals invaiding our Nation.

[moehoward]

The vast majority of the Illegal Alien crowd do not care what we would like and will ignore any program or law that attempts to regulate them once here.

Fences work. Period.

[brityank]

Your analogy is pretty close to the situation now! If you don't think there's essentially free access on our border now, you haven't been there.

I realise that is the current situation -- and our country is becoming a trash-heap because of it. Others here have said it better -- close down any business hiring illegal aliens; deport all illegal aliens as soon as apprehended; do not grant citizenship to babies born to non-US parents; shoot to stop permanently border-runners.

I don't invite everyone into my home, and I doubt you do either. That is why there are locks on the doors, and we turn away those we do not expect or have some type of relationship with -- even though that relationship may be superficially valid (a cop without a warrant).

Currently, there is (I think) a quota on how many people are legally allowed to immigrate each year from each country. And the right to legally immigrate isn't all that easy to obtain and takes a fair amount of time to get, which is why so many cross the border illegally.

We had a 'War on Poverty'. Then why are there more on welfare today than before the war? When you give things away, you eliminate the incentive to acquire it legally. You idea throws Citizenship out, and rewards lawlessness. You really believe that all those illegal aliens will tell the truth? That they can't hide once they get in-country? Please.

BTW -- I am an immigrant; Legal and Naturalized.

[sixmil]

Work nearly grinds to halt as immigrant-raid rumors circulate

[FITZ]

Hundreds of millions of people around the world also want to come to the United States.

I think we need to totally revamp our immigration, travel, and trade policies to reflect who are our "friends" and who has sided against us in the war on terror. We have El Salvador and Poland sending troops to Iraq to die alongside ours --- but we have an open border with a country like Mexico which turned against us and hasn't lifted a finger to help. We've got Michigan filling up with Muslims who claim they want freedom --- but why aren't they fighting for it with us in Iraq right now --- but instead trying to get their hands on any dollar they can?

[Doug Loss]

How would you enforce the protocols? Make the INS stronger for the people who broke their visas?

I admit to not having come up with a comprehensive plan. Yes, we'd have to have an effective enforcement system to remove people who couldn't abide by even these lenient rules.

[Doug Loss]

You have valid questions, Jack, even if you tone is sarcastic. To all of them I say, we have your situation already. Once people are in the US, they're essentially home free. What I was trying to think of is a way to accomodate those who are hard-working people looking for a better life, just like our ancestors were when they came here. The criminals would still try to cross illegally; but if there are fewer of them, perhaps the BP will have a better chance of actually stopping them.

[FITZ]

We probably also need to amend the Constitution so that children born in this country to foreign nationals are not by birth US citizens.

Especially not eligible for welfare checks and any other government handout --- the real reason so many indigent pregnant women get themselves over the border just in time. Give them their birth certificates only after they finish paying their hospital and doctor bills.

[FITZ]

What I was trying to think of is a way to accomodate those who are hard-working people looking for a better life,

We already have that in place --- we accept more legal immigrants than any other country --- but many don't wish to wait their turn in line --- they figure by coming over illegally, they won't need to bother with the hassles the legal applicants have and the waiting period. Rewarding those who don't respect the laws is a slap across the face to those who do.