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AIN'T IT COOL? A Tale of Two Cultures
American Digest ^ | April 13, 2004 | Gerard Van der Leun

Posted on 04/11/2004 12:36:55 PM PDT by vanderleun

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To: vanderleun
You did a nice job of telling it like it is.A sad and maddening picture (to say the least!) that most here seem to agree with,including me.

The arguing would start however,when you attempt to say why it is like this.At that point,many who consider themselves conservatives would be as far apart from each other as cool is from uncool.

God bless

81 posted on 04/11/2004 9:36:26 PM PDT by mitch5501 (by the grace of God,I am what I am)
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To: Travis McGee
I'm an expert in spelling airplane hanger now.





LOL-LOL-LOL
Pity the fool who makes the same error.
You'll catch it right away.
82 posted on 04/11/2004 9:41:29 PM PDT by onyx (Kerry' s a Veteran, but so were Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh and Benedict Arnold)
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To: Travis McGee
You. Good book. I hope to emulate your adventures before decrepitness takes hold. My retirement dream is to croak out on my own fully-paid-for boat, defying the moribund perception that a boat is a hole in the water that the owner is forced to keep pouring money into.

The troops: I would have stayed with it had I seen any better treatment. The constant erosion of benefits since the GI Bill has been the definition of obscenity. That act propelled America ahead of the rest of the world and stands as the only government action of the last century that can be seen as a total success.
83 posted on 04/11/2004 9:55:57 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: vanderleun
That's just about the best-written, overwrought, hand-wringing piece of petulant peregrination I've ever had the displeasure to read.
84 posted on 04/11/2004 10:10:09 PM PDT by Old Professer
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To: onyx
Yes, it kind of jumps out at me now!
85 posted on 04/11/2004 10:40:02 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
If you want to simulate offshore sailing, just stand in a cold shower tearing up ten dollar bills for a few hours.

(Only make it salt water, and have the shower on a gimble that rotates it through 45* on all axes every few seconds.)

86 posted on 04/11/2004 10:42:48 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: vanderleun
"There aren't many rich Orange County mall rats that come to the Marines out of high school."

The Orange County Register had a picture of SSGT Billy Harrell and his wife a few days ago. Harrell died from a bullet wound to the neck in Iraq, serving with the Marines. Harrell grew up in Placentia, in Orange County. If the author is implying that OC kids don't make the sacrifice he can kiss my ass.
87 posted on 04/11/2004 10:55:20 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: vanderleun
Beyond words of praise. Great job!
88 posted on 04/11/2004 10:57:28 PM PDT by broadsword (The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for Democrats to get elected.)
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To: SoCal Pubbie
"Give it a rest, Francis."
89 posted on 04/11/2004 11:18:37 PM PDT by broadsword (The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for Democrats to get elected.)
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To: Snerfling
I'm not sure why he targeted OC.

It probably had to do with its close proximity to Camp Pendleton. And the stark contrasts that arise therefrom. As to the inherent conservatism of Orange County, I don't believe it's as conservative as you think. It was OC that sent Loretta Sanchez to Washington, after all.

90 posted on 04/11/2004 11:22:38 PM PDT by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: SoCal Pubbie
SoCal writes:>If the author is implying that OC kids don't make the sacrifice ...

The "author" ( myself) is NOT making that claim.

The author directs you to contemplate the difference between the
phrase "not many" -- which was what he wrote -- and "not any" which he assumes you read in a dyslexic fugue state.
91 posted on 04/11/2004 11:28:19 PM PDT by vanderleun (from American Digest)
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To: vanderleun
We are two and a half years into the war, but the war is not and will probably never be these kids' concern. It isn't, in any real sense, their war. War isn't being asked of us or the affluent kids of Orange County, nor does it seem likely to be. Besides, war isn't what they're into.

The author directs you to contemplate the difference between the phrase "not many" -- which was what he wrote -- and "not any" which he assumes you read in a dyslexic fugue state.

Yeah right. Are these just California kids you are referring to? Do you think what you observed is somehow just isolated to California?

One other thing, when I was in the military, some of the wildest, some of the biggest drug users, and little criminals in training were kids of those in the military, "military brats" if you will. No, I didn't spend a day on a base like you, I spent years on bases, on and off posts around military bases, and I saw it close up and personal.

This author seems to assumes a whole lot of things.

92 posted on 04/11/2004 11:41:05 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
bump
93 posted on 04/12/2004 12:09:18 AM PDT by IDontLikeToPayTaxes
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To: SoCal Pubbie
I don't think he's saying that no people from Orange County join the military. His point is that few do. Most people in OC wouldn't consider it; it's a very alien and unusual thing to do.

I can tell you that from first hand experience. I joined the Army right out of high school, and I've been here ever since. Care to guess how many people from Orange County I've bumped into over the last decade, to say nothing of other people from Newport Beach? I've met three times more people from South Dakota.

Care to guess how 'cool' the people from my peer group thought joining the Army was at the time? Their reaction was substantially different than a round of high fives. There was widespread speculation that I was pulling their legs.

So, if the author wants to contrast two cultures, he'd have a hard time finding more divere ones than the Marines and Orange County. People from OC aren't bad, but, as a rule, they have different values, priorities, and world views than your average Leatherneck.

94 posted on 04/12/2004 12:10:23 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Yo Mullah so fat, he has to iron his robes on the driveway!)
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To: tpaine
After thinking it over last night, I see your point. A boot camp experience, six weeks or so? I can go along with that.

Switzerland has a similar system, IIRC. In fact, you are to take your rifle home, fully auto, and by law you must maintain it and keep it there. Brilliant idea!

And I still think that if you are on any type of public assistance, you ahould be prohibited from voting, military record or not.
95 posted on 04/12/2004 5:00:06 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend.Jack Handy)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
There's no bling bling to be had by being down with Allah, and who wants to join the list of premature funerals? Right now I'm looking at footage on CNN of dirt-poor fanatics who are desperate for whatever lies their mullah is selling. Since there are about 6 million of these people over here now I encourage the "homies" to keep their guns handy and clean for when those nuts get out of line. Because they're being encouraged to.
They're rebuffing them too. Probably 99% of the Muslims over here are here to get away from the fanatics in their home nations. They certainly don't want to bring that clinton over here, any more than most Mexicans want to bring the padrone system or ultra-corrupt government here, or the Vietnamese wish to import communism.

We need to keep a close eye on the other 1%, but not at the expense of making the 99% into our enemies when they are inclined to be our friends.

-Eric

96 posted on 04/12/2004 6:46:39 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: tpaine
I'm not advocating general conscription for military training.

I'm saying we should have a voluntary 'basic training' in full citizenship for every person who wants to vote.

We would still have completely independant fully volunteer combat forces structured as they are at present.

What you're saying then is you want to build a second military. That wouldn't mess with the current volunteer force, but it would certainly take away resources. The result would be the equivalent of a conscript army....like Iraq's. We've seen twice in the last fifteen years what happens to a conscript army faced by a modern volunteer force, properly equipped and trained.

So this new force would be of marginal military utility. As for the "full citizenship training" part of it, no thanks. Never put something into place that you don't want your adversaries to be able to use. The Democratic crypto-socialists would love a shot at subjecting all American kids that will be able to vote to some of their own "training". It's too dangerous.

Finally, you said earlier that you came from a "culture of cool" that had one difference, a draft. I came from the cusp between the baby boom and "Generation X". We also had a "culture of cool". We had no draft. The difference was we still learned personal responsibility in school. Even in the public schools. Between that and the failures of liberalism and pacifism in the 1970s, my contemporaries supported Reagan 2-1 in 1984 and manned the all volunteer force that liberated Kuwait.

A draft isn't the key. Fixing the schools is.

-Eric

97 posted on 04/12/2004 7:03:17 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: RonDog; vanderleun
Last time I saw one of those, it was sitting on John Hurt's face...

That thing is definitely NOT cool! It looks to have come straight of one of Kennedy's DT nightmares; no doubt the creatures that once scared him off a bridge.

I think, he deserves a box of these as pets.

Great article! Once again the Men of action define a culture while the children of consensus denegrate. Thank you Mr. Van Der Leun.

98 posted on 04/12/2004 8:54:24 AM PDT by Mr.Atos
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To: Steel Wolf
I don't think he's saying that no people from Orange County join the military. His point is that few do. Most people in OC wouldn't consider it; it's a very alien and unusual thing to do.

His article is skewed. Like I stated earlier, some of the biggest drug users, wildest kids, and little criminals in traing were kids from those in the military. Military brats, are some of the worst of the worst.

Care to guess how many people from Orange County I've bumped into over the last decade, to say nothing of other people from Newport Beach? I've met three times more people from South Dakota.

That's funny, I'd almost bet the rent there are more people from South Dakota in So Cal than there are in South Dakota.

Most in Orange County are from places like Colorada, Michigan, NY, Utah, Indiana, Ohio, very few in Orange County are actually from there.

99 posted on 04/12/2004 9:24:00 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
btt
100 posted on 04/12/2004 9:40:21 AM PDT by Snerfling
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