[Iris7]

Since this Iraq business started I have been hearing a lot of talk about the "invincible" Abrams. I decided to investigate this, because the popular view, that the Abrams was "invulnerable", had to be wrong, as the popular view always is.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Abrams is pretty easy to take out by someone either lucky or skilled. I will not get any more specific.

I have been quiet about this stuff, since the enemy most certainly reads the Free Republic, but the cat is now out of the bag, the horse has run off, and the milk is spilled.

The very unfortunate reality is that US training and doctrine and the resulting combat hardware are not suited for the current war. The Fallujah operation we have been watching over the last few days has had many casualties without much good effect, very unfortunately. Totally unnecessary American deaths are happening, maybe one half to two thirds of the combat casualties. Very not good. Encourages the bad guys besides.

[meenie]

The high speed, mobile, army is very hard to beat in a pitched battle against another force where the targets are plentiful. The Rommel and Patton model of armored warfare is incompatible with urban warfare. In urban warfare, the GI with the hand grenade and individual weapon with the support of an occasionable mortar round is the best you can do.

[been_lurking]

The Fallujah operation we have been watching over the last few days has had many casualties without much good effect, very unfortunately. Totally unnecessary American deaths are happening, maybe one half to two thirds of the combat casualties.

Your statement smells of an agenda.

Published reports by the left-leaning biased media indicate a greater than 10-1 kill ratio for the Marines. Under any circumstances, this would be an terrific accomplishment for a military force. Given the urban nature of the current conflict, and the asymetrical attacks by the insurgents, the Marines have done the impossible.

[vbmoneyspender]

The Fallujah operation we have been watching over the last few days has had many casualties without much good effect, very unfortunately.

What's the basis for this statement. My understanding is that we have lost less than 10 Marines in retaking Fallujah, which is a city with a population of 300,000. I'd like you to point to a battle in the past where an armed force attacking a city of a similar size took less casualties than our Marines have taken in recapturing Fallujah?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I have been quiet about this stuff, since the enemy most certainly reads the Free Republic, but the cat is now out of the bag, the horse has run off, and the milk is spilled.

So now you are going to give lessons on tank busting?

Being quiet was a good decision.

[archy]

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Abrams is pretty easy to take out by someone either lucky or skilled. I will not get any more specific.

I have been quiet about this stuff, since the enemy most certainly reads the Free Republic, but the cat is now out of the bag, the horse has run off, and the milk is spilled.

Correct. Any tanker who's maintained his vehicle under the desert conditions at the NTC or in Iraq knows one weakness the enemy could have exploited. And there was that turncoat arrested at Ft Lewis who had been attempting to sell details of Abrams vulnerability to Al-Quieda or Iraqi intelligence...who may not have been the only one.

[Valin]

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Abrams is pretty easy to take out by someone either lucky or skilled. I will not get any more specific.

Well I will, top, and rear armor is weaker than the front and side armor.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Perhaps you can describe, in detail, the types of successful MOUT operations you have either commanded or been an active participant in.

[ExSoldier]

Happy Easter. That is some impressive "about page!" LOL.

I'm a former Armor officer and I qualified on the M1. Yes, any tracked vehicle can be overcome and it's pretty easy to do, especially if the vehicle is sort of wandering about without an infantry escort which is standard combined arms doctrine. If the grunts were nearby this should not have happened at all. No tank should be wandering about on it's own without benefit of a "wing man" tank or infantry escort (mounted or not). No tank should be wandering about without being on a specific mission, even if that's a patrol. Tanks not on missions should be in a "hull down defilade" laager with full perimeter security.

[johnb838]

Most of the deaths came right at the beginning. The Marines came to kick ass but I think they underestimated the opposition. That will not happen again.