Abrams Tank Attacked And Destroyed By Insurgents In Iraq

news wires | 11/04/2004 | Outspot

[OutSpot]

Can anyone tell me how the Iraqi insurgents are able to penetrate our invincible Abrams tank?

[Atlantic Friend]

Whoa ! May I first point out a few things here ? First, the present French government is not leftist, but conservative. Second, FN-FALs are Belgian assault rifles, not French. The French assault rifle is the FA-MAS, a bull-pup model you won't find in the arsenal of Iranian-backed terrorists since its only user is the French Army.

I don't have any info about French firms modernizing Russian tanks, so please forward any link to articles hinting at that. What I know, though, is that French aeronautic firms work with both Russian and US counterparts to develop new propulsion systems (US and Russian firms already working together on the same topics). Isn't it a consequence of the global economy ?

[M1Tanker]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/index.html

Though I don't agree with FAS's political niavity, they have good references. Look at the Russian vehicles (T-55 to T-72) and search for the word 'French'. You will also see several other countries named, including South Africa (they have quite a few dealings in the world arms trade). Also look at the BMP-3.

This is, unfortunatly, the only "open source" (non-classified) info I can find on the web. Most "arms control" websites only attack US policy and defense contractors and no one else.

http://www.thalesgroup.com

This is the only French defense contractor website I found.

I will admit I thought a French firm had aquired FN Manufacturing, but their website doesn't discuss it. I will have to see why I thought that was so.

I would argue the conservativness of the current French gov't, but I would also argue that, as far as domestic policy goes, the Bush Presidency lacks conservatism also. I have written the RNC about this many times (things like the prescription drug bill, the Ted Kennedy "education" bill, etc.. the "New Tone").

[Atlantic Friend]

I didn't know we were producing electronic equipment that could fit into Russian-made tanks. Maybe you see too much malignity in what basically looks like the development of add-ons aiming at improving the armored divisions in Eastern Europe, though, like the Slovenian T-55s. There's a market to share, as shown by the German, British and Israeli add-ons.

Of course, Eastern Europeans are not the only ones to use Sov tanks, so I guess these pods or range-finders are quite common in the middle-east. When you're one of the three or four big weapons producers in the whole world, and you're pretty deeply involved into world politics, I guess it's pretty common to find the equipment of your competitors (or even your own) aimed at your soldiers. The hostile thing would be to refuse to give the weapons specs to your allies when their enemies have been clients, I guess.

As for aerospace industry, as I told you, it's true that EADS has a strong partnership with Russians - as they enjoy a strong partnership with American firms. A good friend of mine who works in the propulsion field recently gave a lecture to US Navy officers about the progress in "pulse detonation reactors" (something he tried oh so many times to explain to me, but I'm about as technical-wise as a goldfish).

You may be right about the FN being sold to some other non-Belgian company, though, your last message did ring a bell. Whether this company is French or American or something else, I don't know.

[johnb838]

You've undoubtedly thought about the idea that if he IS playing election year politics, then the day after he won the election the hammer would come down, right? I mean, that's kind of lousy but its better than Kerry coming out and saying our guys are going to be wearing blue helmets.

[johnb838]

Most of the deaths came right at the beginning. The Marines came to kick ass but I think they underestimated the opposition. That will not happen again.

[M1Tanker]

I didn't know there was a lot of advences in pulse detonation... but my area is ground combat. Pulse Detonation engines/reactors, like so many things, were science fiction mantras only 10 years ago. But, as most things science "fiction", they turn into science "fact" in a short period.

Thanks for the conversation. It's great to have an honest debate with someone who is challenging (without attacking) and makes me go back and check my postion and resources. It helps us all grow and learn. I used to be stationed in Baumholder, GE and visited Metz, France often. I also got a chance to go to Normandy and Ruen in 2000.

[Atlantic Friend]

Ah, don't mention it, Tanker. Like you, I prefer a honest debate to a holier-than-thou or I-know-it-all verbal attack.
I'm all the more open to criticism, since I'm not real happy at my gov't handling of the Iraqi affair either (or at the sending of a French destroyer to participate to the last Chinese naval exercises).

As for Pulse Detonation, it looks like ts status has been upgraded from Sci-Fi to Near Future ! The Russians also have amazing projects, like the cryoplane, a plane theoretically able to reach Mach 8+ (a bit like the US ramjet that made his test flight recently). Makes me wonder what we'll miss and what our children and grandchildren will enjoy and see as perfectly normal.

Say, where are you stationed now ?

[M1Tanker]

I'm at Ft Knox, Kentucky now.

I also always wonder what the future holds. My great-aunt noted one time how much things have changed from her 1950s sedan to my 2003 cars.

Sorry I was long in getting back... hurt my foot today. I guess my warrenty ran out.