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Chicago cardinal [George] would not withhold Eucharist [Kerry]
CWNews.com ^ | Apr. 09 | CWNews.com

Posted on 04/10/2004 8:53:44 AM PDT by Polycarp IV

Chicago cardinal would not withhold Eucharist

Chicago, Apr. 09 (CWNews.com) - Cardinal Francis George of Chicago has announced that he will not deny the Eucharist to Catholic politicians who support abortion, according to an AP report.

Cardinal George reportedly said that he was considering an appropriate response to prominent Catholic political leaders who violate Church teachings on issues such as abortion, homosexuality, and euthanasia. He indicated that he is waiting for recommendations from a task force set up by the US bishops' conference to consider that problem.

The cardinal's statement was triggered by questions that have come to the fore with the emergence of Senator John Kerry as the Democratic presidential candidate. Kerry, who is a Catholic, is a stalwart supporter of legalized abortion on demand.

Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis has indicated that he would not allow Kerry to receive the Eucharist because of his flagrant and public violation of Church teachings. In Boston-- Kerry's own archdiocese-- Archbishop Sean O'Malley has indicated that politicians who flout Church teachings should not receive Communion. But the Boston archbishop has not indicated that he would deny the Eucharist to Kerry or other pro-abortion politicians.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; communion; easter; kerry
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To: Polycarp IV
It all depends on how much money you donate as to what you can or cannot do.
21 posted on 04/10/2004 9:58:32 AM PDT by Piquaboy
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To: www.catholicsagainstkerry.com
Bump.
22 posted on 04/10/2004 9:59:03 AM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Jim Noble
I was born into the Catholic Church so it's quite impossible for me not to be Catholic. However...the excessive liberalization and modernization of the church in America does result in a lot of distortions and misrepresentations of Catholicism. I would imagine that could make things very confusing and frustrating for any sincere people of faith seeking answers in the Catholic Church as it exists in contemporary America. The liberal modernist nonsense is very unfortunate. But that's not real Catholicism.

One thing about "times of crisis" in the church though - it deepens some people's personal faith and spirituality. Because the public representations of the church are so conflicted and filled with error, people have to search deep in their own hearts and prayer life. That in itself is not a bad thing. You can still have saints and very holy, very good people even when the institutions of the church are very much in disorder.

23 posted on 04/10/2004 10:00:18 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Polycarp IV
"Someone should forward this thread to Cardinal George! Let him know that faithful Catholics are desperate for justice!
Maybe we should quit supporting the Bishops' diocesan lenten appeals and capital campaigns until they all follow Archbishop Burke's lead."

Maybe we should calm down and let the Holy Spirit guide this Bishop and Kerry. Kerry does not seen to understand The True Presence not only because of his stance on reproductive choices and fetal cell research, but because he also took Communion in a Protestant Church which belies any belief he has in the Eucharist.

Ultimately, the idea of Kerry receiving the Host after his words and actions this past week will have to be dealt with by the Bishops.

And ultimately, Kerry will have to answer to Someone else.
God is not mocked.
24 posted on 04/10/2004 10:02:12 AM PDT by OpusatFR (John Kerry - Cheezewhiz for the mind - marshmallow sludge for the masses)
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To: hometoroost
"Basically, if you have enough money (Frank Sinatra) you can buy your way out of your old marriage and it never existed but your children are still legitmate. Sorry, I don't buy it."

That is baloney. It has nothing to do with money. There are tribunals of lay people and religious who determine who gets an annulment. There is at lot paperwork involved. That costs money. You can an annulment for about $300.00. If you can't afford it you can get it for less or for free. And when it is over your children are not bastards because that has to do with CIVIL law. CIVIL LAW!!!!! In civil law you are simply divorced and your kids conceived within marriage are legitimate. I canon law it is determined that a SACRAMENTAL MARRIAGE never existed. That has nothing to do with the legitimacy of your children. Nowhere does the church pronounce the offspring of an annulled marriage illegitimate. YOU are the ONLY one doing THAT.

Find a better excuse to leave the Church. The one you pulled out of your ear is transparently lame.

25 posted on 04/10/2004 10:08:57 AM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
It is absurd. There is NO WAY to justify this. But nothing is going to be done by this conference but to announce that if you are pro-choice you will be given Communion but your soul is in great peril. Then the politicans will say, "I don't FEEL that my soul is in peril and it is between me a God." That will be the end of it. 20 posted on 04/10/2004 9:58:25 AM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats

Yes, indeed. And by giving Kerry (and other pro-death politicians) a pass on this, it gives aid and comfort to others to follow their example. Bishops and cardinals who tolerate the pro-death politicians give rise to grave scandal in the church.

So Kerry doesn't think the unborn are real human persons with rights and, hence, they can be snuffed out. Suppose it were Jews or Blacks he didn't think were real human persons???

The election of Kerry as president will be not only a disaster for American society for four years. It will be a monstrous disaster for Western civilization and the whole world. Imagine Supreme Court Justices appointed by John Kerry !!! Imagine his social policies ! Secular humanist Socialism without restraint.

If you can publicly oppose the teachings of the Church in power politics, what significance is there left to being Catholic? That makes no sense. The teaching on abortion is not some esoteric theological mystery. Catholics are not the only ones who oppose abortion. Kerry's public rebuke of the Church is insulting and degrading to Catholics. If elected as president, Kerry will do more damage to Catholic culture than other public figure. He will institutionalize anti-life "liberal" Catholicism Lite (to the delight of the media).

The same liberals and non-Christians who bashed Mel Gibson for being Catholic, will lionize Kerry and worship at his feet. This will be very damaging to American culture. But the effect of Kerry's policies will not just promote the culture of death in America. He will export this vision abroad. Any bishop who thinks this is fine and OK is morally insane. Deranged. Diabolically disoriented. Catholicism will be completely and utterly nullified as a moral voice for all practical purposes.

26 posted on 04/10/2004 10:15:31 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
Still --- I think a lot of people have a problem with the Church claiming not to accept divorce but handing out so many annulments. I know a couple who married young --- at 18 and 20, they had 8 children and after 20 years of marriage divorced --- the wife got tired of the husband's drinking problem which he started in his 30's. She got an annulment and remarried --- in the Church. I don't see how the marriage was not legitimate --- if he had not started drinking, most likely the marriage would have lasted but he was not an alcoholic at the time of the wedding.
27 posted on 04/10/2004 10:22:29 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Polycarp IV
No Catholic should give a penny to the Church in any diocese where the bishop has not made an explicit statement that no pro-abortion Catholic should receive Communion. And the bishop should be expected to back up this statement by disciplining priests who violate this policy.
28 posted on 04/10/2004 10:34:24 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
And by giving Kerry (and other pro-death politicians) a pass on this, it gives aid and comfort to others to follow their example. Bishops and cardinals who tolerate the pro-death politicians give rise to grave scandal in the church.

I posted some thoughts on O'Malley and Kerry on another thread, but I think they bear some consideration. These politicians have been doing this for years, and we know only too well that too many in the hierarchy are not, shall we say, so devoted to Catholic doctrine as they might be.

But what should O'Malley do now? He's pretty new to the archdiocese, so I don't think he can be blamed for the derelictions of others. What should he do?

Kerry apparently attends the Paulist Center in Boston and plans to be there for Easter Mass. For scathing commentary on the Paulist Center, consult BlackElk, and I don't think he's been there for years, but the Center has been over the top in left-wing weirdness since the 60s. The fact that Kerry finds it congenial should tell you enough -- the DNC in drag.

Should O'Malley forbid giving Communion to Kerry in Boston, the Paulist Center would almost certainly publicly defy him, and the press (having been notified and invited) would be there in full force. (I don't know why I said "almost.")

Then what would he do? He doesn't have the authority over the Paulists that he does over diocesan priests (too many of whom are a problem anyway). Theoretically, he could withdraw their permission to operate in his diocese, but how far do you think that would get him? Especially while the archdiocese is still so tainted from the scandal, with Porter in the news again.

It would undoubtedly be interesting to watch. Fireworks are exciting, but they've been known to get out of hand. I am very glad I'm not O'Malley, and I pray that God guides him and gives him strength. But I still don't know what he should do.

29 posted on 04/10/2004 10:37:48 AM PDT by maryz
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To: FITZ
Such reaasonable thinking will get you in trouble here. The annulment-on-request (AKA "Catholic divorce") scandal seems to differ from so many others these days in that so many genuinely committed Catholics have a vested interest in the legitimacy of the system. But it actually makes a mockery of the gospel teaching on marriage, and plenty of people outside the Church realize that. I know one young woman, for example, whose Catholic ex-husband insisted she go through the annulment paperwork because his new shack-up wanted a big wedding in church. The jilted spouse refused but, of course, the annulment was granted and the wedding was celebrated with all possible pomp. When the former wife found a new man, she insisted she would never go through another marriage ceremony but would just live with her lover and bear his children. "More honest than the Catholic Church," she said to everyone who would listen. Frankly, I think she was right.
30 posted on 04/10/2004 10:38:41 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: m4629
Isn't the NCCB a liberal arm of the US Catholic Church? I know that my confessor (very orthodox) does not think very highly of it nor it's creators, Bernardin et al.
31 posted on 04/10/2004 10:46:49 AM PDT by independentgrrl (The epidemy of the left is institutionalized covetousness.)
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
I must have hit a nerve with the all caps and the exclamation points. A little touchy on this one or if you shout it loud enough does that make you feel more correct on this?

I really don't care what the civil law says. Basically the church is saying that your parents weren't married when you were born. I bet that civil law is a great comfort to those who are told their church doesn't think their parents were ever married. And those tribunals are doing a great job in America. Sinatra's first three, count 'em three, marriages were declared null and void so he could marry a fourth time. Excuse me if I'm a little cynical but that is absolute nonsense. If the marriage is sacrimentally unacceptable it never should have happened in the first place for one, let alone three.

Annulments in the Catholic Church these days are cheap and easy.

32 posted on 04/10/2004 10:51:31 AM PDT by hometoroost
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To: Polycarp IV
For what it's worth, Cardinal George "reportedly said" this according to AP. Maybe he did. But maybe he didn't.

I'm not defending him. But he's a bishop with a past record of solid theological orthodoxy trying to cope with a huge mess left to him by Cardinal Bernardin, the single most malign bishop to infest the Catholic Church in America in the past 50 years.

If he thinks it imprudent to speak out on this issue, then I would prefer that he remain silent. The position of the Church is clear.

And with regard to other replies posted here, I don't THINK Kerry has received an annullment. All we know for sure is that he has APPLIED for an annullment, and that his wife refused the invitation from the Boston chancery to oppose the proceedings. That doesn't mean he has received it. If he had, it's hard to imagine he would not have announced the fact publicly, since he is so desperately trying to square himself with Catholic voters.
33 posted on 04/10/2004 10:51:34 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: madprof98
It's somewhat like that with the couple I mentioned. The kids turned out okay --- the father drank but always managed to work and support his large family, the mother was always very attractive, kept a perfect home. She said she got tired of cleaning up the vomit from him coming home early in the morning and throwing up in the kitchen and then passing out on the sofa --- she said for some reason finding his false teeth in it one morning was the last straw. She remarried in the Church, he chooses to believe that his first marriage was legitimate, accepts that there was a civil divorce but doesn't accept the annulment. He continued to financially provide for his kids.

If someone is insane or drunk at the time of the wedding then I can see the annulment --- but it seems those would be obvious enough to everyone at that time and the wedding wouldn't happen. A failed marriage shouldn't be reason to say it was never legitimate --- it could have been if both spouses had done their part.

34 posted on 04/10/2004 10:51:53 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: independentgrrl
Well yes, but they have since merged into one entity, the USCCB. This is the monster that the bishops hide behind the "collective we" when they refuse to honor their office and do the right thing.
35 posted on 04/10/2004 10:53:21 AM PDT by m4629
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To: OpusatFR; .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Annie03; Antoninus; ..
Maybe we should calm down and let the Holy Spirit guide this Bishop and Kerry.

The Holy Spirit IS guiding the teaching Magisterium of the Church, but there is no guarantee any individual bishop or cardinal is being guided by the Holy Spirit or is being faithful to the teaching Magisterium of the Church.

The good cardinal is disobeying the explicit guidance of Holy Mother Church; the Church has spoken:

A Primer on Canon 915: Essential information to present to your Bishop regarding THEIR OBLIGATION to deny the Eucharist to pro-abortion politicians, and the risks of refusing to do so

36 posted on 04/10/2004 10:54:03 AM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic--without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: Cicero
If he thinks it imprudent to speak out on this issue, then I would prefer that he remain silent.

According to Canon Law, not speaking out is NOT an option (see the link I just posted about Canon 915). Its a sin by omission.

37 posted on 04/10/2004 10:56:55 AM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic--without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: Jim Noble
This is a travesty indded.

Qerry should be excommunicated.
38 posted on 04/10/2004 10:58:08 AM PDT by Barnacle (Refuse to speak Leftist.)
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To: FITZ
"Still --- I think a lot of people have a problem with the Church claiming not to accept divorce but handing out so many annulments."

Well that's one thing but claiming that you can "buy" an annulment is cynical and slanderous. And calling the children of an annuled marriage "bastards" is not only cruel it is simply incorrect. Legitimacy is a legal matter that has to do with inheritance, child support, and knowing who one's parents are. It has nothing to do with canon law and sacramental marriage.

Sure in the example you give it seems like, based on what you know on the surface, the marriage was sound. But you can't go just by what is on the surface. The information they tribunal gathers is very extensive, confidential and in depth. I mean they probe deep into the lives of the couple. They interview relatives, they get phychiatric records if there are any aviailable.

While I tend to agree that there might be too many annulments I can't be sure because what is on the surface is not all that is there.

39 posted on 04/10/2004 11:02:03 AM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: madprof98
When the former wife found a new man, she insisted she would never go through another marriage ceremony but would just live with her lover and bear his children. "More honest than the Catholic Church," she said to everyone who would listen. Frankly, I think she was right.

Madprof, are we to believe that you ENDORSE this woman's fornication?

40 posted on 04/10/2004 11:07:17 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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