Posted on 04/09/2004 7:03:23 PM PDT by quidnunc
Scholars who believe the Kensington Runestone is a 19th-century prank — and not concrete evidence that Norsemen beat Columbus to America by 100-plus years — say they have found the smoking gun to prove it.
The latest in the century-old Minnesota controversy came in documents written in 1885 by an 18-year-old Swedish tailor named Edward Larsson. He sometimes wrote in runes — an ancient Scandinavian language that differs from the English alphabet. But Larsson's runes were not the usual runes used over the centuries.
The scholars contend that parts of his documents seem to be written in a secret runic alphabet used by tradesmen in Sweden in the late 1800s, rather like codes that tramps have used over time to leave secret messages for each other.
Swedish linguists happened upon Larsson's documents recently and found that his writing corresponds to pieces of the Kensington Runestone inscription. They say that the journeymen's code did not exist in medieval times, when the Kensington Runestone is purported to have been carved.
"My opinion is this once again nails down the case against the Kensington Runestone," said Michael Michlovic, professor of anthropology and chairman of the Department of Anthropology and Earth Science at Minnesota State University Moorhead.
"This new evidence is really devastating. It comes unexpectedly and from a collection of old letters that have nothing to do with the Kensington Runestone."
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
Skoal!
From the fjords of Kansas...
Mercy! Lutefisk is enough punishment.
I object to the Marvel comics Thor on the grounds that he is prettified, sissified, and cleaned up. Asa-Thor was a red-headed, rowdy, short-tempered, mead-swilling, good old boy. He was the god of the smallholder and tradesman, the ordinary working stiff. He would never have spoken in high flown quasi-Biblical language.
While you're reading the epics, check out the Story of Thor's Fishing, and the other short poem dealing with the insult contest he has with a disguised Odin at a river crossing. Gives you a better idea of his personality and character.
All they've got is that one rock, and that supposedly left behind by the remnant of a culture that in all of it's manifestations regularly drew petroglyphs (mostly of males with enormous erections) all over the place.
Absent the petroglyphs my thoughts are that the stone is a FAKE!!!!
LOL!--very true :)
In reply to your other post, I grew up in the Milwaukee area, but now I'm in Door County about 45 minutes out of Green Bay. My Norwegian relatives are from the Eau Claire area and thereabouts.
"The number of archaeological sites which have been excavated is an extremely small proportion of sites which exist across Arctic Canada dating to the period prior to the abandonment of the Norse colonies (click here to see a picture of a Thule house). Further archaeological investigation will undoubtedly uncover additional evidence of relationships between the Norse and the Inuit. It could be that all of the iron, bronze, copper and cloth artifacts found in the Canadian Arctic Inuit sites may have been obtained by a few raids on Greenlandic farms or parties on hunting trips and then traded northward through Inuit communities to the Thule district and west and south across Arctic Canada, but it seems likely there is more to the story. It is doubtful that the relationship between Inuit and Norse could be only one of occasional brief and violent encounter. Rather it would seem possible that these people engaged in mutually beneficial trading activities over a period of several centuries, and that these activities may have encouraged occasional Norse penetration of parts of the eastern Canadian Arctic."
In addition to this generally-accepted evidence of Vikings in eastern Canada, there are other, more controversial finds in other places. One that is heavily debated is Newport Tower in Newport, Rhode Island--here is a fairly detailed article on that with pictures which describes many of the various competing theories:
Loose Threads in a Tapestry of Stone: The Architecture of the Newport Tower
An alternate proposal had made its debut in 1837 when Carl Christian Rafn, Danish archaeologist, scholar, professor and Royal Counselor, who possessed a formidable knowledge of the repertoire of old Norse literature, produced his Antiquae Vinlandicum. He presented a forceful case for Norse presence along the New England coast, specifically Rhode Island. Rafn had been sent drawings of the Dighton “Writing Rock” at the mouth of the Taunton River,[2] and, in collaboration with scholar and runologist Finn Magnussen, had concluded that there was indeed written on the rock THORFINN[3] in the runic letters of the 11th century. This led to the conclusion that the nearby tower in Newport must have also been a product of Viking craftsmanship. Rafn’s enthusiastic support of Norse presence in America set off a flurry of interest, theories, and “proofs” supporting the Norse Theory.
The flurry saw a new burst in 1841 when Henry Wadsworth Longfellow expanded on the discovery of a “skeleton in armor” in nearby Fall River, Massachusetts to embrace the Newport Tower as the location for the melancholy end to his heroic, if mediocre, poem where the skeleton became a Viking prince and the tower, his lady’s bower.[4] Partisans for the Norse theory grew in number, encouraged by the unearthing of the Kensington (Minnesota) rune stone in 1898. Journalist Hjalmar Holland, who had dedicated his life proving the authenticity of the Kensington stone, took up the banner for Newport. The proper Bostonians entered the fray in 1877 with Eben Horsford joining Longfellow, Edward Everett Hale, Lowell, Whittier and Oliver Wendell Holmes, in supporting the Norwegian Ole Bull on the pro-Norse side. Horsford and his daughter Cornelia continued carrying the Viking torch, which was passed on to Frederick Pohl.[5]
The above-mentioned Fall River, Massachusetts skeleton site has been discussed in previous FR threads on this topic (Study Says Medieval New World Map Is Real [Thank Leif Eriksson], Post #12, which notes--blam, you may find this of interest--"Many descriptions I have read indicate the skeleton had red hair."). Here are some details:
THE SKELETON IN ARMOR (Fall River, Massachusetts)
When Longfellow wrote " The Skeleton in Armor," he commemorated forever the curious and mysterious remains that were found in Fall River in the year 1832, and destroyed in the great fire of 1843. Few persons of general reading are entirely unacquainted with the conjectures of antiquarian and archaeological societies in relation to the origin of this skeleton. The Society of Northern Antiquaries of Copenhagen, Denmark, which, a few years after the finding of the skeleton, had the subject under consideration, raised the query whether it might not have been the remains of one of the Northmen, who are now very generally supposed to have visited our coast, and to have spent a winter here, or near here, about the eight or ninth century. Probably the best account now extant of the finding of the skeleton, and a description of its appearance at the time, was written by the date Dr. Phineas W. Leland in the records of the old Fall River Athenaeum soon after the fire of 1843, and is as follows:
"Among the curiosities of peculiar interest (in the cabinets of the Fall River Athenaeum) was the entire skeleton of a man, about which antiquarians in the odd as well as the new world had speculated much. The skeleton was found in the year 1832 in a sand- or grave]-bank a little east of the Unitarian meetinghouse by some persons while digging away and removing a portion of the bank. (On or very near the site now occupied by the "Gas-Works, corner of Hartwell and Fifth Streets).The skeleton was found near the surface in a sitting posture,the legbones doubled upon the thigh-bones, and the thighs brought up nearly parallel with the body. It was quite perfect, and stood remarkably well the test of exposure. Covering the sternum w as a triangular plate of brass somewhat corroded by time, and around the body was a broad belt made of small brass tubes four or five inches in length about the size of a pipestem placed parallel and close to each other. Arrowheads made of copper or brass were also found in the grave with the skeleton. That these were the remains of an Indian seemed to be very generally conceded; the configuration of the skull, the position in which the skeleton was found, and the additional fact that parts of other skeletons were found near the same place renders it nearly certain that these were the bones of an Indian. Whose frame it was will not likely ever be permitted us to know. Whether it belonged to some chief still celebrated in song and story, or to an obscure child of the forest, whose bones and deeds slept in the same undistinguished grave, we have no means of knowing. Tradition and history are alike silent when interrogated. We would fain believe that these were the remains of some noble old chief, once master of the beautiful and rich valley through which the dark waters of the Titicut (Indian name of Taunton River) still rot. We would believe so, for we dove to think that humanity once warmed the heart of him whose bones have excited so much our wonder and curiosity. Whoever he was, peace be to his ashes."
Both the Canadian and New England sites are near stoneworks such as burial mounds which resemble structures built by the Norse and Celts in Europe as well as those of the Mound Culture of pre-Columbian America. There are also racial and cultural parallels between certain Northeastern tribes and Northern Europeans--for instance, in Algonquin legends there are trickster characters who resemble the Norse god Loki (for a reference and discussion/debate on this see Re: Vikings, Vinland, and Native Americans). Things like this lead me to wonder if perhaps there was some contact between Viking colonies like L'Anse aux Meadows and the Mound Culture, which would be a possible solution to the logistical problem of how the Vikings could have gotten from the Eastern seaboard to places like Minnesota.
Interesting! I've heard arguments for Japanese influence on Pacific Northwest and Californian Indian tribes, but that's the first time I've heard of a Chippewa connection. I did have a Chippewa friend in high school, but I think he was only half-Chippewa; would have to think whether I'd describe him as Japanese-looking. Offhand I think his facial features kind of reminded me of Jim Plunkett, the 1970s quarterback--I know Plunkett was of Indian descent but I'm not sure what tribe.
On your other post on Minnesota petroglyphs, there are a number of other petroglyph sites in that part of Minnesota besides the Kensington one. Here's one which is near the Kensington site but considerably older:
At Jeffers, the ancients left their story written in stone
Photos of the Jeffers Petroglyphs and SW Minnesota
There are a number of other interesting petroglyph sites all over the US and Canada. One that seems possibly Scandinavian is the Sanilac Petroglyph site:
The Sanilac Petroglyph site is located approximately in the center of Michigan's "thumb area," almost in line with Bay City, Michigan. It is one of our state's most interesting archaeological sites and is open to the public. Sanilac Petroglyph State Park is Michigan's only known example of primitive petroglyph art. The site is two miles east of New Greenfield, Michigan. and covers 240 acres of wilderness. The sign at the intersection of Bay City-Forestville and Germania roads and the park entrance makes it easy to find. . .
The main petroglyph itself is a sandstone outcropping about 40 feet long by 15 feet wide. All over the carved surface of the rock are petroglyphs, some deep and others barely discernible. There are human figures, outlines of hands and feet, zoomorphic figures, bird forms, animal tracks, small cup-like depressions, spirals, clubs and rake-like elements, as well as apparently mythical animals. . .
Because of weathering problem, no exact date for the site has been agreed upon. There appears to be no way of using forest development, pollen analysis or dendrochrology to date this site. No one knows for sure who the carvers were or what the images they created mean. . .
In the 1940's the Cranbrook Institute archaeologist Darrel J. Richards thoroughly recorded the site, taking both pictures and diagramming the site. Anyone familiar with the Petersborough, Ontario and Kelley's Island sites, and Ohio petroglyph sites will notice a marked similarity to the style and symbolism at the Sanilac site. There is the possibility that these sites are somehow related. The Petersborough site was detailed by Harvard Professor Barry Fell's book, Bronze Age America. Professor Fell deciphered these petroglyphs as being a record of Norse copper traders from around 2000 BC, as many of these inscriptions were "in his interpretation" consistent with Tifnag and Ogam consiane alphabets. Many of the rake-like elements of the Sanilac inscriptions do strongly resemble the Ogam writing system, and it is possible that Native Americans of Michigan played an international and diplomatic role and hosted Norsemen thousands of years before the arrival of Columbus. It may just be possible that the Norse may have been met by local inhabitants of the area and were allowed to record their visit on the stone along with earlier and later Indian inscriptions. Stranger things have been discovered. If this were found to be true, Michigan would certainly become one of the more prominent states involved in "New-World exploration" archaeology.
He lifted the Midgard Serpent! (And wrestled Eilli - Old Age - to a standstill.)
The sissified has nothing to do with strength and everything with behavior. It's the same thing the old Victorians did to the robust medieval customs - toned them down and prettied them up. The old Thor is (as my grandmother used to say) somebody you could not POSSIBLY invite to dinner!)
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