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To: XBob
But that isn't what led to Stalin's Russia. The Czarist government ran a command economy, serfdom but not capitalism. And the economy was in pretty good shape, at least as good as any serf-state which has a vested interest in keeping a certain section of the people poor. And it didn't lead to Stalin's Russia, it lead to Lenin's Russia, Lenin's death and his lack of strong associates led to Stalin's Russia, and Stalin's rampant paranoia is what made Stalin's Russia so evil.

You've got the same problem trying to justify Mao. Capitalism isn't what Mao fought against, colonialism was what he overthrew.

And you're hosed on the Hitler issue since it was really the punishments inflicted on Germany after WWI that crippled their economy, combine that with a totally bizarre form of democracy they implimented which led to 4 national elections in 1 year and dozens of political parties that left the German people ready for war and fascism.

You try to blame everything on capitalism, but your sad attempts just show you know nothing about history, or what capitalism actually is.
706 posted on 04/14/2004 6:51:33 PM PDT by discostu (Brick urgently required, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu
706 - boy, what history are they teaching you kids these days?

If you will follow
You wrote:
"But that isn't what led to Stalin's Russia. The Czarist government ran a command economy, serfdom but not capitalism. And the economy was in pretty good shape, at least as good as any serf-state which has a vested interest in keeping a certain section of the people poor. And it didn't lead to Stalin's Russia, it lead to Lenin's Russia, Lenin's death and his lack of strong associates led to Stalin's Russia, and Stalin's rampant paranoia is what made Stalin's Russia so evil. "

Repression and poverty of the masses under serfdom (bad economy for the serfs) lead to revolution, which lead to anarchy of civil war, and a short lived (2 years) republic, which lead to marxism/leninism, which died when lenin died shortly after which lead to stalinism, who murdered millions of 'capitalists', the kulaks because of massive starvation (bad economy).

If I remember correctly, The bad economy was caused by bad capitalists, kulaks (the only capitalists left in russia), who, in spite of a very bad and dangerous wheat mold, poisonsous, harvested their wheat and made it into bread, which ended up killing millions of people either from the bad wheat or from starvation. This provided the perfect opportunity for Stalin to take their land, and get rid of opposition at the same time.


711 posted on 04/14/2004 7:43:19 PM PDT by XBob
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To: discostu
706 - "You've got the same problem trying to justify Mao. Capitalism isn't what Mao fought against, colonialism was what he overthrew. "

My goodness, you don't know anything about history. China was not a colony of anybody, except for tiny trading places like Hong Kong. Mao fought against the capitalist, Chaing Kai Schek, who ruled china, as the remnants of the last dynasty disintigrated, and it was converted to chinese capitalism, which caused civil war, which Mao won, running Chaing off to Taiwan, where he kept up the 'fictional' chinese government of the Republic of China.

Again, bad economy caused anarchy and civil war, leading to dictatorship and socialism.

China, under Chaing, was our ally in WWII, not a colony.

You really are ignorant, arent you.
712 posted on 04/14/2004 7:49:59 PM PDT by XBob
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To: discostu
706 - "And you're hosed on the Hitler issue since it was really the punishments inflicted on Germany after WWI that crippled their economy, combine that with a totally bizarre form of democracy they implimented which led to 4 national elections in 1 year and dozens of political parties that left the German people ready for war and fascism. "

Here you are sort of right, except that Germany had a long history of capitalism, (Remember Krupp and the Ruhr Valley steel and chemical industries, and the magnificent German fleet of WWI?) and unbridled capitalism, leading to WWI and when that was lost, and reparations were extracted, essentially again, anarchy insued, massive inflation, and starvation, and then Hitler, once again establishing tyranny, which killed millions more, which led to WWII, which killed millions more .

So - basically, unrestrained capitalism, leads to anarchy, and dictatorship.

All the above happened, while we had 'restrained' capitalism, thanks to Teddy Roosevelt, and his 'trust busters', giving us 'restrained capitalism, which gave us the powerhouse of a nation we had for many many years.

UNRESTRAINED CAPITALISM IS BAD.

RESTRAINED CAPITALISM IS GOOD.
716 posted on 04/14/2004 8:04:14 PM PDT by XBob
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