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State, feds clash on gun records
The Chicago Sun-Times ^ | April 8, 2004 | FRANK MAIN (Crime Reporter)

Posted on 04/08/2004 7:30:52 PM PDT by neverdem

The Illinois State Police have collected computerized records of 2.15 million firearms transactions since 1992, when the state launched instant background checks of gun buyers.

Now, Gov. Blagojevich is trying to fend off federal efforts to scrap this statewide database of gun purchases that he believes is key to the fight against terrorism and street crime -- but which the gun lobby calls an infringement of buyers' constitutional rights.

Blagojevich is concerned about a law Congress passed in January requiring the FBI to destroy records of instant background checks within 24 hours. The U.S. Justice Department has warned Illinois it must comply with the law -- which would mean getting rid of the state's gun-purchase database.

On Wednesday, Blagojevich sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft urging him to repeal the 24-hour limit.

"Only criminals stand to gain from the destruction of firearm transaction data," he wrote.

The National Rifle Association and other groups believe the Illinois database violates the Second Amendment right to bear arms and the right to privacy.

"Obviously, our lawmakers in Washington believe records of law-abiding gun owners should not be kept beyond 24 hours," said NRA spokeswoman Kelly Hobbs. "Gov. Blagojevich has been open in his opposition to the rights of law-abiding gun owners."

The governor's move comes as he has been getting flak from both sides of the gun-control issue. Last week, Blagojevich said he would support lowering the age for getting a firearm owner's identification card without parental consent -- but only if the state bans assault weapons.

Illinois requires residents to obtain a FOID card before they may buy or possess a firearm. There is a 24-hour waiting period to buy rifles and a 72-hour wait for handguns.

In 1992, Illinois required dealers to call a State Police hotline before a buyer could take possession of a gun. The hotline was designed to weed out violent criminals and the mentally ill by combing the computer files of local, state and federal law enforcement agencies and state mental health records.

In 1998, the nationwide National Instant Check System was launched. Illinois is one of 24 states that perform the checks and feed the information to NICS. The FBI does checks for the other 26 states.

Since 1998, the FBI was required to destroy records of background checks within 90 days, but in January, Congress tightened that window to 24 hours.

Illinois was never told it needed to comply with the 90-day record retention limit, said Abby Ottenhoff, a spokeswoman for the governor. But when Congress passed the 24-hour limit, the feds told Illinois it must destroy the records just as the FBI does, Ottenhoff said.

Richard Pearson, head of the Illinois State Rifle Association, said Illinois should have been destroying those records since 1998. "They are trying to legitimize something they should not have been doing," he said.

Ottenhoff said the database is essential for law enforcement to investigate gun trafficking.

The database includes the date and time of the transaction, whether the buyer was approved or denied, what databases returned information regarding a criminal record, the gun dealers' federal license number, and the purchaser's FOID card number.

The State Police can match the database with a separate FOID card database to learn how many times an individual has purchased a gun and where the firearms were bought. Then investigators can go to the gun dealer to determine the make and model of the guns and their serial numbers.

Only the State Police have direct access to the database, but federal, state and local agencies are given information about specific cases, Ottenhoff said.

One example of the system at work is Tommy Porter, who in January 2000 was linked to a gun used in a crime. The State Police searched the gun purchase database and discovered 15 transactions over seven years.

Investigators went to gun dealers and learned Porter had bought a total of 20 guns. He admitted he was recruited by the Gangster Disciples street gang to buy guns and was paid $50 for each firearm. He was convicted of several federal firearms offenses.

In a move to keep such information available to law enforcement agencies, the governor's office has drafted legislation to allow the state to keep gun purchase records for 10 years, Ottenhoff said. Any record older than 10 years would be destroyed.

Pearson said his group already is lobbying legislators to vote against any bill protecting such records.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; guncontrol; gunprohibition; gunrecords; privacy; secondamendment
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1 posted on 04/08/2004 7:30:54 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: fourdeuce82d; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; archy
BANG
2 posted on 04/08/2004 7:33:33 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: All
The home of the right
Liberty, prosperity
Your support makes us.
3 posted on 04/08/2004 7:38:08 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (I'd rather be sleeping. Let's get this over with so I can go back to sleep!)
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To: neverdem
Blagojevich is concerned about a law Congress passed in January requiring the FBI to destroy records of instant background checks within 24 hours. The U.S. Justice Department has warned Illinois it must comply with the law -- which would mean getting rid of the state's gun-purchase database.

If Governor Blag (the impaler) and his master His (dis)honor Daley don't obey the law, send the FBI to burn 'em out of the governor's mansion and whatever palace the Mayor lives in. Nah, just clamp 'em in irons and see how they like Club Fed. On Wednesday, Blagojevich sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft urging him to repeal the 24-hour limit.

Blag thinks the AG can repeal the law passed by Congress? Hmm, well at least he's no longer IN Congress.

4 posted on 04/08/2004 7:57:24 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: neverdem
The only good thing about Blah-Gotcha-Bitch being elected IL. governor is that he is no longer in congress.
5 posted on 04/08/2004 8:01:10 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("...and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take...OUR FREEDOM")
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To: neverdem
... but which the gun lobby calls an infringement of buyers' constitutional rights.

Nice unbiased phrasing there ...

6 posted on 04/08/2004 8:01:55 PM PDT by evilC
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To: El Gato
LOL
7 posted on 04/08/2004 8:02:44 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem; *bang_list
To fully understand the scope of this, do a Google search on "Cage Unit".

That will scare you for sure.

8 posted on 04/08/2004 8:07:24 PM PDT by Petruchio (<===Looks Sexy in a flightsuit . . . Looks Silly in a french maid outfit)
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To: neverdem
On Wednesday, Blagojevich sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft urging him to repeal the 24-hour limit. "Only criminals stand to gain from the destruction of firearm transaction data," he wrote.

Himmm, and if Blagojevich doesn't obey the law, that makes him a criminal, doesn't it?

Federal troopers inforcing the law on the governors mansion .. shades of the forced integration of schools.

I think it is a legitimate function of the federal government to protect the Bill of Rights from decimation by the State Governments.

9 posted on 04/08/2004 8:16:48 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
LOL, IL state law will be glady appeased..

They can do whatever they want regard to guns.

Nobody cares.. Only the 'gun nuts in the NRA' give a damn.

And those are all gun nuts anyway..

In all honesty, nobody cares.
10 posted on 04/08/2004 8:22:33 PM PDT by Monty22
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To: El Gato
The Law is for the proles, not for the Overlords.


11 posted on 04/08/2004 8:40:39 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: El Gato
You know the Gov doesn't live in the mansion. He commutes on you tax dollar.
12 posted on 04/08/2004 8:41:18 PM PDT by endthematrix (To enter my lane you must use your turn signal!)
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To: Petruchio
Yeah, it scares me.

"CAGE" Unit Confiscating Citizens Guns

Mayor Daily and his elite "Cage" unit have teamed up with the Illinois State Police and the Chicago Police Department to take advantage of gun privacy control loop holes. With these loop holes they are able to pin point certain individuals for inclusion in the confiscation program. Evidently, it works like this: thanks to a recent ruling by a liberal judge, the Cage unit now has in it's possession the name of every person who has lawfully bought more than one hand gun in a one week period. Along with the names they also have the make, model and serial number of every gun nationwide. They are, so to speak, compiling a nationwide list of every gun owner and what type of gun they own. The Cage unit has also compiled a list of families who have more than one FOID card in the same family. With that information, the Cage unit is contacting every gun shop where those families have shopped and is illegally registering all guns bought by those families. As if that in itself isn't bad enough, the Cage unit is now comparing the registered list against the FOID list. Those who have not updated their registration and FOID cards will have their weapons confiscated.

13 posted on 04/08/2004 8:46:15 PM PDT by endthematrix (To enter my lane you must use your turn signal!)
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To: Petruchio
Seems like the new fed law would put a crimp in the plans for the Cage Unit, but they could get around it by generating a new back up copy every 24 hours, IMHO. Their phony compliance would also be exposed.
14 posted on 04/08/2004 8:55:05 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: endthematrix
You are on the right track. The first sentence of this article takes on a whole new light when the Cage Unit is also included.
15 posted on 04/08/2004 9:01:28 PM PDT by Petruchio (<===Looks Sexy in a flightsuit . . . Looks Silly in a french maid outfit)
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To: endthematrix
Those who have not updated their registration and FOID cards will have their weapons confiscated.

To have possess a firearm or ammunition, an Illinois resident must have a FOID card which has been previously issued to that resident by the State Police. To transport a firearm that isn't dissassembled, or to purchase a firearm or ammunition, one must have a current, valid FOID card, but for possession of a disassembled firearm, or for the possession of a firearm in one's dwelling, fixed place of business, or at a licensed shooting range, the law does not specify that it be current.

To be sure, there are probably some police and prosecutors who can't be bothered to read what a statute actually says, but there is nothing in this statute, unlike others, that requires that the FOID be current.

(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(2) No person may acquire or possess firearm ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
So is Daley's plan to try to prosecute people who aren't even violating any statute?
16 posted on 04/08/2004 9:23:42 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: supercat
I haven't read the law, but if "the provisions of the act" stipulate that the FOID expires after 5 years, wouldn't that mean that the gun owner is no longer in possession of a FOID "under the provisions of the act?"
17 posted on 04/08/2004 9:41:14 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: supercat
So is Daley's plan to try to prosecute people who aren't even violating any statute?

Yup.

18 posted on 04/08/2004 9:41:24 PM PDT by Petruchio (<===Looks Sexy in a flightsuit . . . Looks Silly in a french maid outfit)
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To: coloradan
I haven't read the law, but if "the provisions of the act" stipulate that the FOID expires after 5 years, wouldn't that mean that the gun owner is no longer in possession of a FOID "under the provisions of the act?"

The "under the provisions of this act" language would seen to be apply to the issuance of the card, rather than its possession. If all places that referenced the card used similar language, one might reasonably infer that they meant to require that the card be current. When most places specify that the card must be current and one does not, however, that would appear to be a noteworthy distinction, especially given that there would be logical reasons for such a distinction (e.g. it avoids creating criminals-by-default while providing an incentive for people to renew their FOID cards [so they can more easily transport firearms, buy more firearms and ammo, etc.]).

19 posted on 04/08/2004 9:52:26 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: neverdem
The Federal law restricts Federal retention of firearms records - I don't see how it applies to the Illinois State Nazis, unless they're actually retaining backup copies of the records the Feds are generating. If they're keeping their own records, I doubt if the Federal law is applicable?

(Not that Blagabagabooger or whatever its name is shouldn't be hung from the nearest lamppost in any case, mind you, but...)
20 posted on 04/08/2004 11:51:21 PM PDT by fire_eye (Socialism is the opiate of academia.)
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