FR Exclusive: Jeb answers questions about his support of drivers licenses for undocumented workers

Jeb's emails to FR poster, summer | April 6, 2004 | Jeb Bush

[summer]

Note to FR, from summer:

FYI -- I am posting here below: (1) an email I sent to Gov Bush today, (2) his email response to me, and (3) another email response he directed to me, and you, from his office.

As most people here know (because I wrote about it at length on FR), I previously had a long dialogue with Gov Bush about education, via email. And, at times, I have emailed him about issues of concern to people on FR.

Consequently, this is another exclusive for you.

summer

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Email #1, from me to Gov Bush, today:

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:11 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: FR person's fax to you

FR Person's fax to you

Gov Bush, I'm sending a copy of this to you, as suggested in the headline, so that if you want to respond online, to the people reading it, let me know and I will post it for you. [summer]

---------------

Email #2, from Gov Bush to me, in response to above:

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer], I will get [my office] to respond to you.

Jeb

----------------------------------------

Email #3, directed by Gov Bush to me and you, from his office, to all here:

----- Original Message -----

From: [Gov Bush's office]
To: 'Jeb Bush'; [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer] --

I hope the below Q&A is helpful. Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best,

[Gov Bush's office]

------------------------------------------

Florida Safe Driving Act

[1] Why give driver licenses to undocumented aliens?

Florida has no power over immigration and naturalization issues, but it does have a duty to protect the safety of its citizens. Allowing Florida’s more than 400,000 illegal aliens to obtain a driver license under very strict conditions will increase safety on our roads and highways. It will boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws.

Also, a separate provision in the bill makes it easier for people with visas to renew their Florida driver licenses. Many individuals from outside the country visit Florida annually for an extended period of time. The new law allows them to renew their licenses every two years, rather than having it automatically expire every time they leave the country.

[2]Why wouldn’t the state just deport the aliens once they have verified their identity?

Under Federal law, no state has the power to deport anyone; it is exclusively the domain of the Federal government.

[3]What does the bill require?

This bill creates some of the highest verification standards in the country. It has more than 15 requirements for approval, and it requires the consulates to provide the applicant’s documentation to the state of Florida.

Aliens would be required to:

Ø show an identification card with digital image that has been produced with standards that would prevent counterfeiting;

Ø provide a second form of identification;

Ø submit fingerprints to the state; and

Ø agree to a criminal background check from their country of origin, the state of Florida and the United States.

The bill creates a mechanism for Florida to work with foreign consulates to approve a stringent means by which to verify the alien’s identity and ensure the consulate is not issuing a duplicate ID. Any consulate that cannot meet these verification standards will not be able to participate in the program.

Among the requirements consulates must show:

Ø documentation that the applicant has not been convicted, or is wanted of a crime equal to a felony in his home country;

Ø a certified copy of the applicant’s official driving record from home country;

Ø certification that the form of identification is legitimate;

Ø certification that the underlying documents used to issue identification are legitimate; and

Ø certification that the home country has security system in place to prevent multiple issuance of identification cards to the same individual.

[4] Who does this bill not apply to?

Aliens from countries on the U.S. State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism are prohibited from applying, as are those who are subject to an order of deportation. Felons cannot apply nor can aliens who cannot establish presence in the state for at least six months in the past five years.

[5] How does this differ from California law?

First, California law did not exclude applicants from the list of countries maintained by the U.S. Department of State as state sponsors of terrorism. In addition, California did not require state and national criminal background checks, nor did it provide procedures in conjunction with foreign consulates to verify identity and criminal backgrounds with an applicant’s home country.

[6] Where will the licenses be valid?

The licenses are valid in Florida only, for two years. They will have a distinct look from standard driver licenses.

[7]How will the bill be implemented?

Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles will be responsible for adopting stringent procedures and coordinating with the consulates to ensure verifications of identity and background history of aliens. Consulates will have to provide certifications of the processes they have in place to establish identity of their citizens who apply. If a consulate does not meet these standards, their citizens will be prohibited from applying.

[8]What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

[DH]

"It will boost compliance with Florida's auto registration and insurance laws"

That sums it up nicely.  The purpose is to get more tax revenue and force them to increase the profits of the insurance companies.  Nothing more, just a huge untapped source of money for both the government and insurance coffers.

RULE #1:  THE GOVERNMENT ONLY PASSES LAWS THAT FORCE THE GOVERNED TO PURCHASE THE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES OF COVETED POLITICAL SUPPORTERS OR THAT INCREASES INCOME FOR THE STATE THROUGH TAXES OR HIDDEN TAXES (FINES AND PENALTIES).

I seemed to miss one very important note (or benefit) of Jeb's plan........that was to provide the INS with the names and locations of ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS holding Florida driver licenses.  Did I miss something?

Yeah, yeah.  We get all of this garbage on how this will mean safer roads.  Explain how it will make them safer.  Does the state provide these people with chauffeurs and welfare appointed drivers who can read english signs, obey laws and understand courtesy and manners of the road?

[familyofman]

A question for Jeb;

Since you know there are a huge number of illegals in your state and you state (correctly)that the matters of immigration and deportation are federal matters - why not pick up the phone & call your brother, Tom Ridge, and John Ascroft and ask them to help you 'clean up Dodge City'? That would be a much better solution than aiding & abetting known criminals remain in your state. If your concern is truly the safety of Floridians & other US citizens - take some action (with the feds) to clean up the swamp you currently find yourself in.
If you swore to uphold the laws and constitution of Florida - get some cajones and do something to rid your state (our country) of this pestilence.
I await your response.

[jimt]

He is still my favorite governor.

I'm glad.

Unfortunately, he is aiding and abetting criminals.

Illegals having driver's licenses won't do anything to make anyone safer. They'll still drive junkers without insurance and run from accidents. But they will be able to access more socialist services, increasing the tax drain on taxpayers. They will be able to register to vote, so they can vote thmselves more bread and circuses.

Jeb is utterly wrong, as is his brother. Any attempt to legitimize illegals is morally wrong, as well as ILLEGAL.

Their position on this issue is disgusting.

[wku man]

Yes, I read it, and I stand by my disgust. I'd like to ask the governor, who I voted for in 2002, by the way, the following question:

Why, in the name of God, are you rewarding those who criminally break into our country, instead of, after a traffic violation that would cause them to be pulled over and ticketed, just holding them and notifying the INS, or whatever name they're going by now? If the state has no authority to enforce immigration law (which by the way, why aren't you bending your brother's ear about that...oh that's right, your brother wants to grant amnesty to illegal scumbag aliens!), why don't we at least hold them for violating state laws while the feds are on their way over to question/investigate them?

That's what I'd like to hear our esteemed governor answer to. I mean dang! At least if El Reno had been governor, she'd have sent in the storm troopers to ship the illegals back to wherever they came from at gunpoint, especially if they're Cuban (oh, that's right...Cuban illegals are a privileged group...my bad!).

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[evilC]

evilC: if we can have an instant background check for gun buyers, why not for employers?

summer: You lost me here - do you mean for employers of undocumented workers?

I mean a telephone number that employers can call to verify that a potential employee is legally able to work in the USA.

If we can have a "National, Instant Background Check" for gun buyers, why not the same for potential employees. A simple phone call could verify a workers status (the only information that has to be released is a yes or no regarding the ability to legally work in the USA, no personal information would be released).

One of the points boosters of illegal immigration claim, is that would be impossible to create a verification system. My point is that we already have such a system. There was the political will to create the first, there appears to be no political will to create the second.

[steve-b]

Why wouldn't the state just deport the aliens once they have verified their identity?

Under Federal law, no state has the power to deport anyone; it is exclusively the domain of the Federal government.

What a weasel. It is obvious on its face that the previous question is, if you want to dot the legal "i"s and cross the jurisdicitonal "t"s, equivalent to "Why wouldn't the state just hand over known illegal aliens to the Feds for deportation?" The flack who wrote this could give Clinton lessons in the fine art of nitpicky evasions.

[F16Fighter]

"Has every elected Pubbie in this nation lost his/her backbone?"

Don't forget the shrunken pair of cujones.

"Have they completely forgotten the difference between right and wrong? Or is everything these days about getting re-elected, or elected to higher office?"

Yes -- it's called "power over principle" in the name of moral relativism.

This is the "new" Republican.

[DumpsterDiver]

I do think some of what Jeb says makes sense, and I especially think that security issues are addressed in this, something that was missing in California. What do you think. or are you still absorbing it all?

I think there are people (like Jeb) who are willing to twist themselves into however many knots it takes to convince themselves and others that they are not rewarding illegal aliens when they are, in fact, rewarding illegal aliens.

Everything that is done to make it easier for an illegal not only makes a mockery of the law, it is giving tacit approval to all of the garbage that is part and parcel of illegal immigration. It further encourages the breaking of the law (being here illegally) and that is the starting point of the chain reaction that has given us the mess we have today. Why encourage more of the same?

It's very simple to me. You either believe that being a nation of laws is a good idea, or you don't. I expect the government to enforce the law. What Jeb is dishing up is a big ol' spoonful of Bandini's finest and expecting me to chew, swallow, smile and ask for more. No thanks.

[Nea Wood]

With all of the requirements, it seems to me that very few illegals will be getting licenses, anyway.

I agree. And since they're here illegally, anyway, they have no respect for our laws in the first place. They'll just continue to drive unlicensed and uninsured.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Thanks for posting this Summer. I don't know that I agree with Governor Bush on this, but I am glad that he took the time to explain his position. I think he makes a some good points, however, I wonder if there isn't a better solution to be had.

I don't think giving illegals the opportunity to be lawful will make them so. I doubt they will choose to get insurance, when they have been driving recklessly for many years with no consequences.

I personally like Jeb Bush, but I do find myself in disagreement with some of his ideas, and I chalk this up to politics. I just wish it were no so.

I will reread this again and give it some more thought. Thanks again.

[baseballmom]

I understand the sentiment of your post, harsh as it sounds. Do you really think ALL illegals are scumbags? I don't. I think the majority of illegals are simply trying to escape their own hell holes and give their families a better life - here.

That said, I'm very frustrated that we don't seem able to enforce our borders and immigration laws. But this deplorable situation didn't start with GW or Jeb.

They are here. Florida estimates 400,000 illegals. Throughout the country the estimates are 10 million. Do you think it is possible to deport 10 million people? I don't think it is possible.

So, now that they're here, and it doesn't appear they're going away, how do we deal with the situation?

It requires a lot of thoughtful discussion. We are talking about human beings, the majority of whom just want a better life for their families.

Last week in Miami, I rode in a cab driven by a Brazilian (now a citizen). He had advanced degrees in Economics, and had taught in Chicago for a time. He is going home to Brazil, because his wife of 3 years overstayed her visa by 2 months, and is now, in his words, persona non grata. She was stopped at the Miami airport last year, and sent back within 3 hours.

I felt sad for him - he had played by the rules since 1992, and his wife somehow goofed up the red tape.

[thoughtomator]

It's nice of him to reply, but the answer dodges all the important questions:

1) Who is going to pay for this? US citizens?
2) Why wouldn't Florida give the list of illegal aliens to the federal government for enforcement of immigration laws?
3) If someone is going to break our immigration laws, and we make it plain and clear that we're not going to enforce those laws, what reason is there to believe that person is going to obey traffic laws?
4) Doesn't the fact of the state of Florida dealing directly with foreign governments raise issues of federalism?

[BenLurkin]

Not part of the Q & A, is:

Does not the State have a duty of support the very concept of citizenship?

and maybe it is just too abstract for this kind of discussion, but there is also is the question:

Do those in State government concern themselves with defending the citizens of their state from the illegal invasion, or are they simply paper shufflers crafting bureaucratic solutions to small problems?

Agreed though that Jeb is being very responsive to your inquiries.

[marron]

Will criminal aliens be able to use these I.D.'s to purchase firearms? ... board commercial aircrafts? ... illegally cross over the U.S. border? ... register to vote?

Yes to all the above. If driver's licenses become common among illegal aliens, it will become worthless as identification. This will force the issueing of identification cards to citizens and legal residents at some point.

Other countries have such ID which is required to conduct any kind of business; we have avoided it because our social security numbers combined with driver's licenses have provided the same function. But once illegals are commonly and legally issued both, they will no longer suffice for proof of legal residence.

At that point, either we issue "cedulas" or ID cards to everyone, or citizenship will cease to have any meaning at all. The borders are down, at that point, and we are a couple of election cycles away from the end of constitutional government.

[hchutch]

It is the type of situation that leads me to believe that comprehensive reform is needed, and that a number of the folks in the "10 million illegals" probably deserve to be cut some slack.

I know that is going to cause the usual wails from the likes of Tom Tancredo and Michelle Malkin, but there is a huge difference between the folks who goofed up in the red tape (honest mistakes), those who might not even know they are here illegally (there have been a few honor students who were brought here as young kids that have made the papers), the folks who got here any way they could to save their lives (I am aware of the details of one such case), those just looking for work, and the nasty folks who seek to run drugs or to commit terrorist acts.

But that would require common sense. And between the bureaucracies involved and the various interest groups and pundits who make a lot of money by mouthing off on this issue, there really is little incentive to use common sense.

[international american]

Thanks for the freepmail, and your efforts for clarity!

I will endeavor to answer one by one.

1)"Florida has no power over immigration and naturalization issues"

If I commit a federal crime, and a local cop pulls me over, he can detain me for the feds(INS) to pick me up.
There is no will at all by the feds to do this. Not Jeb's fault by any means.

2)See #1
What does the bill require?

3)Very good! I suspect no more than 10-20% will apply. Fake lic are sold in the parking lot they have a mole in dmv... along with fake ss cards.
2 for 300.00!

4)"Who does this bill not apply to?

Aliens from countries on the U.S. State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism are prohibited from applying, as are those who are subject to an order of deportation. Felons cannot apply nor can aliens who cannot establish presence in the state for at least six months in the past five years."

Felons would buy the fake ones. In California illegals commit so many violent crimes it would shock you! If they kill somebody, here in California they skip over the border and lie low for a year or 2..then come back. The prisons here are so overcrowded wil illegals that felons of all races get out very early. (See DOJ report).

5)"
How does this differ from California law?"

It is much better, which is why only the cleanest illegals in Florida will apply.

6)"
Where will the licenses be valid?
Also good...but few will apply, methinks.

7)"

How will the bill be implemented?

I wouldn't trust the Mexican consulate as far as I could lift and throw the Sears tower into Lake Michigan:)

8)What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

8)What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

8)What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

Another reason so few will apply. Fact is, the feds want these illegals. California has no more room to detain illegals and the LAPD has been ordered to not question illegals of their status. As a matter of fact, they rarely pull illegals over(some are easy to spot) because it is a police department "hot potato".

Best regards, IA

[cinFLA]

so I hope the info above is helpful in furthering an intelligent debate based on actual facts.

Spoil-sport! :-)

[international american]

"Last week in Miami, I rode in a cab driven by a Brazilian (now a citizen). He had advanced degrees in Economics, and had taught in Chicago for a time. He is going home to Brazil, because his wife of 3 years overstayed her visa by 2 months, and is now, in his words, persona non grata. She was stopped at the Miami airport last year, and sent back within 3 hours.

I felt sad for him - he had played by the rules since 1992, and his wife somehow goofed up the red tape."

This is very sad...if his wife snuck in, she would get amnesty!

[cyborg]

He's making a big mistake. Instead of coddling illegal immigrants, they should spending the money to get rid of them.

[Willie Green]

With all of the requirements, it seems to me that very few illegals will be getting licenses, anyway.

What? So we're supposed to be content that he's stuffed the Florida Motor Vehicle Code with a lot of seemingly restrictive red tape and fine print? Malarkey. Now that he's opened the door, those restictictions will be hacked to pieces, one-by-one in the liberal courts or in the dead of night when the legislature thinks nobody's looking. Same old "boil the frog". What a weasel.