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1 posted on 04/04/2004 3:37:20 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Alouette; mhking; doug from upland; GummyIII; LisaMalia
What do you think of this?
2 posted on 04/04/2004 3:38:43 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: All

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3 posted on 04/04/2004 3:41:00 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!)
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To: EveningStar
One can't discuss the Holocust without mentioning the German's. How can we discuss Christ's death without mentioning the Jews. Get over it, it wasn't the Irish!
4 posted on 04/04/2004 3:42:07 PM PDT by Warrant
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To: EveningStar
I don't understand this. Was it ever in dispute that the Jews killed Jesus? Without the death of Jesus, wouldn't we all still be condemned? Wasn't the death of Jesus a loving gift from our merciful God?

When wrong seems right, and right seems wrong ...

5 posted on 04/04/2004 3:46:49 PM PDT by kdot
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To: EveningStar
The increase was especially pronounced among two groups. The portion of people younger than 30 who say Jews were responsible for killing Jesus has approximately tripled, from 10 percent in 1997 to 34 percent today. The portion of African Americans who hold that view doubled, from 21 percent to 42 percent.

So if I understand this right, the last time they polled for this info was in 1997, ONLY 7 years ago, LOL.

And in 7 years the numbers have changed, but they are attributing the change in stats to a movie that's been out for 5 weeks.

What a joke!!!

13 posted on 04/04/2004 4:01:55 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: EveningStar
"The percentage of Americans who say Jews were responsible for Christ's death is rising "

Only because Jewish leaders having been repeating the lie for six months.

Jewish leaders want to blame all of their problems on Christians disliking them because they killed Jesus.

No different from the Muslims blaming America for all their problems.<

Where are the moderate Muslims and moderate Jews to speak out against the bigotry and hate of their radical brethren?

16 posted on 04/04/2004 4:10:35 PM PDT by bayourod (We can depend on Scary Kerry's imaginary foreign leaders to protect us from terrorists.)
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To: EveningStar
Pew research?

Pulleeeze!

25 posted on 04/04/2004 4:59:31 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (I'm isthisnickcool, and I approved this post!)
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To: EveningStar
I'll tell you what, I saw the movie and I have been VERY angry ever since. The next Roman centurion I see is gonna hear about it, too...!

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F
26 posted on 04/04/2004 5:22:35 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (Never forget: AFP and AP were right there to film the mutilation of our men.)
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To: EveningStar
Pew is a lefty poll. Says more about the left than the US as a whole.
32 posted on 04/04/2004 5:48:17 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (3% votes Nader vs 1% purity on the right. Purity is the losing strategy right from the get-go.)
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To: SJackson; Yehuda; Nachum; Paved Paradise; Thinkin' Gal; Bobby777; adam_az; Alouette; IFly4Him; ...
Ping.
35 posted on 04/04/2004 6:16:26 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: af_vet_1981
Ping.
36 posted on 04/04/2004 6:17:21 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: EveningStar
THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS CONSPIRED TO KILL JESUS.

THE JEWISH CROWD CHOSE BARRABAS, NOT JESUS, THEREBY CONDEMNING HIM TO DEATH AT THE HANDS OF THE ROMANS.

MATTHEW 27:25 - READ IT.
37 posted on 04/04/2004 6:19:53 PM PDT by ASTM366
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To: EveningStar
The Passion clearly portrays Christ letting his spirit escape his body at His own will, and that no one could kill him. The people delivering him to be killed or punished for transgressing is the main apparent error.

Should we be responsible for people who do not get it? who do not get in bad faith what Passion is portraying? Obviously those who do not are not Christians, whether they are the antisemites who believe Jews killed Jesus or whether they are Jews who do realize what Passion portrays.

Also it's not the killing of Jesus but the not realizing that he was being delivered for a wrong done. Technicaly Christ did not do wrong in the eyes of God but to mere mortal he did do wrong. Our incapability of realizing what he did right is to show how little we comprehend things and how we should repent.

So that Jews et al. found him in the wrong was meant to be. It is the reaction to this perception of him having done wrong that is wrong.

Punishment is not about hurting someone because they did wrong, but it is about making them REALIZE what they did. If not punishment would be useless and would be about whether one follows orders or not, as opposed to whether one does what God wants to be done. What is the use of punishment when one knows what was done wrong? If one knows, then one needs no more punishment since one is then compliant in realizing future actions and doing it right. Keeping them in jail or whipping them while they are doing right is ridiculous.

So the error is the wish not to realize what Christ did or did not do. It is one thing to not want to realize what oneself has done bad, it is another to not want to realize what others or Christ have done that is good. Christ took it upon Himself to realize the damage the world did and to pay back what the world had taken from God. Realizing that is all that is needed , according to the principle.

A child inherently believes in God because a child does not care whether one is good or bad, a child only wants to know what is going on and that others realize what is going on. So this dispute about Passion is a dispute of the blind and the deaf, blindness and deafness not brought by old age, but one brought by aged and decaying souls which are living already in hell because all they can follow is the madness of blind orders like the fiery flame ordering the hand to "not go there".

We have to realize that the antisemites does not want to care how the Jew lives in the ghetto, but the insular Jew must realize that he may not understand either what the antisemites around are all about. Isn't that the lesson of the Holocaust? Not realizing the difference between true Christ worshipers and other "Christians" is a deadly sin indeed.
41 posted on 04/04/2004 6:41:05 PM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: EveningStar
What would Christians think about Jews if they had imprisoned Jesus, taken him to a posh all-inclusive resort, and pampered him until he died of natural causes at a very old age?

Would that have been better?

Or do some Christians want it both ways?

42 posted on 04/04/2004 6:41:23 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: EveningStar
Dang!  By just READING THE BOOK one would think that THE JEWS killed Jesus!


Acts 3:12-18
 12.  When Peter saw this, he said to them: "Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?
 13.  The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
 14.  You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.
 15.  You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
 16.  By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.
 17.  "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.
 18.  But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ  would suffer.

 

Acts 5:27-33
 27.  Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest.
 28.  "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
 29.  Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
 30.  The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom
you had killed by hanging him on a tree.
 31.  God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
 32.  We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
 33.  When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death  (*)

 

Acts 7:51-60
 51.  "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
 52.  Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--
 53.  you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
 54.  When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.
 55.  But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
 56.  "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
 57.  At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,
 58.  dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
 59.  While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
 60.  Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.   (*)

 

Acts 9:22-24
 22.  Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ.
 23.  After many days had gone by, the Jews conspired to kill him,
 24.  but Saul learned of their plan. Day and night they kept close watch on the city gates in order to kill him.  (*)

 

Acts 9:29
 He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him. (*)

 

Acts 10:34-40
 34.  Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
 35.  but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
 36.  You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
 37.  You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached--
 38.  how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. 
 39.  "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
 40.  but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

 

Acts 23:6-14
 6.  Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
 7.  When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.
 8.  (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
 9.  There was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. "We find nothing wrong with this man," they said. "What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"
 10.  The dispute became so violent that the commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them. He ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force and bring him into the barracks.
 11.  The following night the Lord stood near Paul and said, "Take courage! As you have testified about me in Jerusalem, so you must also testify in Rome."
 12.  The next morning the Jews formed a conspiracy and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.
 13.  More than forty men were involved in this plot.
 14.  They went to the chief priests and elders and said, "We have taken a solemn oath not to eat anything until we have killed Paul.
15.  Now then, you and the Sanhedrin petition the commander to bring him before you on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about his case. We are ready to kill him before he gets here."
 16.  But when the son of Paul's sister heard of this plot, he went into the barracks and told Paul.
 17.  Then Paul called one of the centurions and said, "Take this young man to the commander; he has something to tell him."
 18.  So he took him to the commander.   The centurion said, "Paul, the prisoner, sent for me and asked me to bring this young man to you because he has something to tell you."
 19.  The commander took the young man by the hand, drew him aside and asked, "What is it you want to tell me?"
 20.  He said: "The Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul before the Sanhedrin tomorrow on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about him.
 21.  Don't give in to them, because more than forty of them are waiting in ambush for him. They have taken an oath not to eat or drink until they have killed him. They are ready now, waiting for your consent to their request." (*)

 

Acts 25:1-3
 1.  Three days after arriving in the province, Festus went up from Caesarea to Jerusalem,
 2.  where the chief priests and Jewish leaders appeared before him and presented the charges against Paul.
 3.  They urgently requested Festus, as a favor to them, to have Paul transferred to Jerusalem, for they were preparing an ambush to kill him along the way. (*)

 

Acts 25:10-11
10.  Paul answered: "I am now standing before Caesar's court, where I ought to be tried. I have not done any wrong to the Jews, as you yourself know very well.
 11.  If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!"  (*)

 

Acts 26:21
 That is why the Jews seized me in the temple courts and tried to kill me. (*)

 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
 14.  For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
 15.  who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
 16.  in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

(*always wanting to KILL someone...)


 

43 posted on 04/04/2004 6:42:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Truth is violated by falsehood, but it is outraged by silence.)
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To: EveningStar
The percentage of Americans who say Jews were responsible for Christ's death is rising according to a poll taken since the release of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of the Christ."

The Jews have the decency to feel bad about any part they might have had in the business. If slammites had had anything to do with killing Christ 2000 years ago, they'd still be celebrating and passing out candy and shooting AKs off into the air.

57 posted on 04/04/2004 7:35:50 PM PDT by greenwolf
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To: EveningStar
I would like to see the raw data. The exact question before as opposed to now. I don't trust Pew.
58 posted on 04/04/2004 7:35:54 PM PDT by cookcounty (John Flipflop Kerry ---the only man to have been on BOTH sides of 3 wars!)
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To: EveningStar
The words of Jesus in John 10: 17-18:

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

That should be the end of the discussion, folks.

60 posted on 04/04/2004 7:39:30 PM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
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To: All
Related thread
73 posted on 04/04/2004 8:27:57 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar
Bottomline is some Jews asked the Romans to execute another Jew. How is to blame? Well, some individuals were responsibe of Jesus's death almost 2000 years ago. Whoever blames the Jew as whole is nothing but a moron. Collective guild is absolut nonsense.
76 posted on 04/04/2004 8:50:54 PM PDT by Bismarck
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