Fallujah Delenda Est

Newsmax ^ | April 2, 2004 | Dr. Jack Wheeler

[TomGuy]

Fallujah Delenda Est


It is very easy and justifiable for every American to take the barbaric horror that occurred in Fallujah on March 30 personally. It is even easier for me in particular because the private contractor who provided the convoy guards murdered and butchered by the Fallujahites is a personal friend.

Yet this is a crime that requires far more punishment than simple revenge. Let me state it clearly: The people who committed this crime are subhuman. They have relinquished their claim to be considered members of the human race.

[hershey]

Early this am, NPR's On Point program had on the author of a book...didn't catch name of book or author, but he was an academic with the idea that what was going on was Occidentalism vs. an older eastern culture. (Occidentalism is in the title somewhere). God forbid we should call this a holy war, but that's what's being sold in hundreds of thousands of mosques around the world.

The author mentioned Japan vs. the US as an example of how threatened an older culture might be by the west, and the US in particular. The serin gas attacks in the Tokyo subway were carried out by fundamentalist Japanese, who felt their culture was being destroyed by evil, modern ways. The discussion got interesting just as I had to turn off the radio, but the author said there were moderate Muslims who wanted to live in peace. Presumably, he was going to come up with specifics after the break, but I missed that.

A bit earlier, a crackpot from San Francisco called to blame everything on greedy corporations moving into purer, older cultures and ruining their peaceful existence. Kenya. Where kids were suddenly charged money to go to school. Multinational businesses needed cheap labor, and the kids went to work instead of school. They got back to the main subject as soon as they got rid of that guy. The author said, delicately, that Islam in many ways was 'backward', thus threatened by the west. They also discussed some Muslim who emigrated to the US and was appalled by licentiousness, etc. and women's 'free' ways. Times Square was evidently on his list of hot spots.

Disillusioned, (he'd expected to be wined and dined as a big thinker, and was miffed when this didn't happen), he tossed off some anti-American poetry and a great many more tracts along those lines, and left. If the On Point correspondent and the author figured out how to solve the terrorist problem, I missed it...so we'll have to roll up our sleeves and do it, ourselves.

[Robert_Paulson2]

So you are advocating imitating the tactics of the Islamofascist crazies who want to kill all the Infidels

---

No, I would like us to start with the islamofascist crazies who are the majority in fallujah.

After we set a few standards for their behavior and our merciless response... they will settle down, and let us clean up the rats nest and vipers of islamic jihad planet wide.

If not, we will have to ratchet it up.

Don't worry... we aren't going to go hog wild.
but we should.

[tbpiper]

This is the mentality we are up against:

I know the mentality we'er up against. I also know your type of mentality will not win, it being that it's stuck in the last century. It's a different war with different tactics. As you trapse off into hypotheticals about Soviets, genocide, et al, let me bring you back to ground. Fallujah does not rate carpet bombing, nuking, nor indescriminate executions. It rates the disciplined use of deadly force. You can bloviate all you want about killing the rest of the world to protect your family, but the reality is this, four (4) Americans were murdered and their bodies mutilated. As disgusting and infuriating as that is, it is no reason to destroy the whole town and it's inhabitants. Our forces will take care of this in the right manner and at the right time.

[Robert_Paulson2]

whatever you say...
you obviously believe you know better than me.
we shall see how it ends up.

[tbpiper]

They understand force and fear. We have to threaten them until they fear us like no other

I mostly agree with your post and continue to support the disciplined use of deadly force. A rough definition of that force being: Kill the ones you can kill, change the ones you can change, and intimidate the rest.

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

"We will not do what this author proposes nor will we nuke Fallujah as some other nitwits have suggested. We are not that kind of people. we will, however, responded with the appropriate, disciplined force"

You should have put it this way 'we will, however, respond with appropriate, disciplined force that probably won't be aggressive enough to be effective in the long run'. American troops die because we worry too much about civilian deaths. The way we are fighting won't be effective in stabilizing Iraq. We are letting the people who incite violence and rebellion run around unrestrained and that's going to cost us this war. We need to step it up and go after people like Sadr and the other ingrates.

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

I agree with everyone who thinks we should use extremely aggressive and overwhelming actions. 60 years ago we would have seriously considered the actions that many of us are hoping for here. Our new politically correct way of fighting wars has shown to be extremely ineffective in this kind of war. We need to step it up and do everything we have to win this thing.

[tbpiper]

You should have put it this way 'we will, however, respond with appropriate, disciplined...blah blah...

Oh Goody! Another FOS nukemtilltheyglow nitwit.

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

Exactly when did I say we should nuke the City? Although that doesn't sound like a bad idea. The fact is we are so concerned with killing Iraqi civilians that we end up getting more American troops killed in the end. Look at some of the cities in Germany and Japan that we bombed. We destroyed many of them even though we knew we were killing a lot civilians. We did it because it was the more effective way to win the war. We won that war at all cost unlike today.

I would rather 10 Iraqi civilians be killed if that saved 1 American life. Now we can't go on any kind of offensive without worrying about civilians. It's getting ridiculous. Why would anyone have much confidence in our military responding in an aggressive and effective manner, when it has been restrained and held back in every war since Vietnam(and Korea to some extent). Our Military has the power to win wars and save AMERICAN lives, but it's given ignorant rules to follow these day. Politically correct wars cost American lives and have shown to be ineffective.

One of the questions I would like to ask is, why are we just now planning to move into Fallujah and take control of it? We knew all these corrupt animals who hate us were controlling parts of that city a long time before these recent attacks. Why didn't we take control of it before? It was because we were afraid of killing Iraqi civilians. But you can't fight a war without killing some civilians in the process of killing the enemy. It's unavoidable.

[Getsmart64]

Good post!

[tbpiper]

Exactly when did I say we should nuke the City?

This:
has shown to be extremely ineffective in this kind of war. We need to step it up and do everything we have to win this thing

. Plus this: ThermoNuclearWarrior

With hints of stupidity from:
Our new politically correct way of fighting wars

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

"Exactly when did I say we should nuke the City?
This:
has shown to be extremely ineffective in this kind of war. We need to step it up and do everything we have to win this thing

. Plus this: ThermoNuclearWarrior

With hints of stupidity from:
Our new politically correct way of fighting wars"



tbpiper, you have a very severe attitude problem. You're a little too sensitive and hostile when it comes to the opinions of others. You remind me of a liberal.

"Exactly when did I say we should nuke the City?
This:
has shown to be extremely ineffective in this kind of war. We need to step it up and do everything we have to win this thing"

So you are saying that I said we should nuke Fallujah, because I said we should "do everything we have to win this thing"??? I guess that means you are saying that the only way to win this war is by nuking Fallujah, right? I said we should do everything we have to do to win the war. You must think it's going to take a nuke to win this war, to come up with that ignorant assumption you made from that sentence.



". Plus this: ThermoNuclearWarrior

With hints of stupidity from:
Our new politically correct way of fighting wars"

So you don't believe our military is too politicized? You think Vietnam wasn't politicized? American troops weren't restrained, were they? Our government allowed our troops to fight that war to win, right? I guess you think the situation in Somalia wasn't politicized either.

You made a very weak and pathetic argument. The parts of my post you tried to use to make your points, just made you look ridiculous. You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to go around attacking people. While making very weak arguments to try and prove your point. How about debating instead of calling people names?

[tbpiper]

“American troops die because we worry too much about civilian deaths. “ TermoNuclearWarrior

“60 years ago we would have seriously considered the actions that many of us are hoping for here.” TermoNuclearWarrior

Precisely what actions are many of ‘us’ hoping for? Most of what I’ve seen here harkens back to Hiroshima & Nagasaki. This isn’t ’60 years ago’, it’s not the same type of war and cannot be fought with the same tactics. We could kill 10 locals for each American death. That tactic worked well 60 years ago for the Germans.

you have a very severe attitude problem.

Yes I do.

You're a little too sensitive and hostile when it comes to the opinions of others.

Only with the really stupid ones.

You remind me of a liberal.

Thought it was my job to be calling names. You’ll be hearing from my uninon.

(you might want to change that ‘TermoNuclearWarrior’ thing. It’s a bit over the top)

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

Our occupation of Germany and Japan was much more successful than our occupation of Iraq. We worry too much about Iraqi civilians, which only gets our troops killed. The war is too politicized. Our Military has been politicized ever since the Korean war.

I never said we should drop a nuke on Fallujah. We have enough conventional bombs and artillery to get the job done. If you think our occupation of Iraq has been planned and executed correctly then you are mistaken. Why haven't we had control over Fallujah? Why did we allow a city of that size to become a terrorist haven for the guys who kill our troops? Why are we just now getting ready to enter Fallujah and take control of it and Pacify it? Why did it take until now to do what should have been done a long time ago?

tbpiper, why are you still saying I said we should use nuclear weapons when I have never said we should use them? Your arguments are so ignorant and irrelevant, because you are debating something I never said. You don't seem to have much knowledge of anything. You make the worst arguments I have ever seen. Our occupation of Japan and Germany were much more effective than our occupation of Iraq.

BTY, you put way to much thought into screen names. You shouldn't take things so serious. You're really annoying;)

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

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TIME TO BOMB THE SUNNI TRIANGLE?

TIME TO WIPE OUT THE VICIOUS INHUMAN BASTARDS?


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[Unknowing]

". . . they might as well go down fighting and take as many of their enemies with them, to increase their bodyguards in Hell."

OK, so the damned get to keep their enemies as bodyguards in Hell? Please forgive my ignorance, but where did you get that?

If both sides are evil and damned, how do they know who has to be the bodyguard? Whomsoever kills the most enemies receives the most bodyguards?

[tbpiper]

Our occupation of Germany and Japan was much more successful than our occupation of Iraq.

That's absolultely pathetic. We've only been in Iraq for a year. You've no grounds for that comparison. You haven't even a decent concept of what's going on over there. You're going to have to unstick your strategic thinking from the last century.

why are you still saying I said we should use nuclear weapons when I have never said we should use them

You still haven’t explained this:
“60 years ago we would have seriously considered the actions that many of us are hoping for here.”

[Amelia]

Destroying Fallujah would only make 500,000 martyrs. Taking the patient, deliberate action of finding and eliminating the insurgents denies them a martyr's hope of glory and puts in them the sure knowledge that no matter what they do to us, that evil will be undeniably visted on them by our disciplined use of deadly force.

Also, if we are attempting to install a modern republic, with a modern justice system, the use of tribal justice for revenge on our parts seems a bit less than constructive.

That said, I'm not sure they understand anything besides "tribal justice".

[Junior]

What we made was an enemy desperate for us not to do it again, desperate enough to lay down arms immediately.

In Japan we were dealing with a government that felt responsibility for the safety and welfare of its people. In Iraq we are dealing with religious fanatics that believe they have a responsibility for all good Moslems to get to paradise -- and the quickest way to do that is to die killing an infidel. What worked in one case will not work in the other.

[Qwinn]

I take it you are unfamiliar with the word "kamikaze"?

Qwinn