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Fifth grader charged after bus fight over snack cake [9 yr old beaten to unconsciousness]
AP ^ | April 2, 2004 | Staff writer

Posted on 04/02/2004 5:34:30 AM PST by TaxRelief

For discussion and education purposes only.

Greensboro, North Carolina-AP -- A North Carolina fifth-grader has been charged with assault for knocking out a boy in a school bus fight over a snack cake.

(snip) ...According to the principal, when the boy sitting next to him asked for a bite, Kevin said no and was smacked in the face with a stuffed Tweety Bird. Kevin hit back, but was slammed against a window and hit in the back.

Then he fell in the aisle and was stomped.

School officials say when the bus driver pulled the aggressor off him, Kevin was unconscious.

(Excerpt) Read more at whnt19.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: bullies; bullying; cakecrime; educationplan; littledebbie; movieviolence; nccrime; schoolbus; schoolviolence; schoolyard; socialdecay; tvviolence; videogames; zebracakes
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To: Esther Ruth
Sorry, the "it's for your own good" left is so wacko that it made your story borderline plausible. :o)

Personally if I ever do have any kids I'd send them to a martial arts school where self-defense is emphasized at an early age. No TV. If you're 12 years old and 80 pounds no amount of John Wayne bravado is gonna save you from the 180 pound 9th grader.

Agree, though, the sanitized PC "everyone's your friend" shows are utter crap. Look at what happened to that girl who was murdered in Florida, she trusted a guy who came up to her, she got murdered for it.
81 posted on 04/02/2004 10:24:38 AM PST by Nataku X
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To: ladylib
I hate to think of the kids who go through this, year after year. I haven't forgotten, although I left school more than 20 years ago. I spent much of my twenties trying to figure out what the hell had happened to me.

Gatto helped me figure it out. I'm still very angry. But at least now I understand why.

82 posted on 04/02/2004 10:31:45 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Esther Ruth
Right - they are NOT taught to defend themselves - that is wrong - instead you talk talk talk, do anger management, or conflict resolution and try to understand why the bully doesn't like you, WWOD - What would Ophrah DO? Hugs all the way around, just hugs!

The problem is being coerced/forced through taxation to send children to school with other children who are unsafe. This boy fought back but was stomped unconscious. One solution is to only send children to school with other children who are taught (and accept) a duty to defend them as brethren.

As for this case, hang a jacket on the perp for a very long time because the odds are he is a sociopath.

83 posted on 04/02/2004 10:35:28 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: r9etb
If you're really interested in fixing what's broke, you need to take an honest look at what's not broke.

Believe me, I have no interest in fixing schools. They should be blown up. Or sold off and converted to residential housing, or something.

If you want to know why I think schooling is satanic, read this book, by the 1991 NY State Teacher-of-the-year. (Yes, I said satanic).

84 posted on 04/02/2004 10:39:11 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Riley
the whole experience was a Gulag for kids

Mmmm. I call it the Schoolag Archipelago.

85 posted on 04/02/2004 10:42:02 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Nakatu X
Honestly - I think the schools and world have gone insane and I will not lie, I would not let my kids near these school for nothing, we homeschool, and not just for this reason but for a million other reasons. It wasn't this bad 20 or 30 years ago, a kid being picked on could "find a way and come out stronger" it definitely was not a good thing to coddle a child being picked on by bullies, but this is a whole different ball game, the boy is unconscious over a snack!!!! And I don't think you should leave your children in these public schools to help bring a change back to them, I think that logic is assan***. I think parents should move heaven and earth to get their kids in good private schools or homeschool!
86 posted on 04/02/2004 10:43:56 AM PST by Esther Ruth (George W. Bush - My Kids Newest Bestest Super Hero of ALL TIME)
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To: Just another Joe
When your mother is a teacher form the old school style of teaching, school IS about learning.

"School is the cheapest police."
-Horace Mann

The lessons of schooling aren't what's learned on the blackboard. The curriculum is in the context.

The seven lessons of schooling are:

1) Confusion
2) Class position
3) Indifference
4) Emotional dependency
5) Intellectual dependency
6) Provisional self-esteem
7) No privacy

This is the result of American having adopted the Prussian schooling system of the mid-nineteenth century, under the urging of Horace Mann. The goals of Prussian schooling were the following:

The Prussian mind, which carried the day, held a clear idea of what centralized schooling should deliver:

1) Obedient soldiers to the army;

2) Obedient workers for mines, factories, and farms;
3) Well-subordinated civil servants, trained in their function;
4) Well-subordinated clerks for industry;
5) Citizens who thought alike on most issues;
6) National uniformity in thought, word, and deed.

The current situation is actually worse than this. But basically, that's what school's all about, Charlie Brown.
87 posted on 04/02/2004 10:53:12 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: af_vet_1981
Amen! I am all for school choice. These stories drive me absolutely crazy, to think of these children living in these hells, and after paying taxes, not being left with a choice. It is criminal on the NEAs part. I see things a little to black and white and those who claim to be conservative and still support the public school systems - I believe they are part of the problem, it is a ship that should be sunk and is sinking but to slowly. It needs to be abandoned quickly. The transition will be difficult but is essential and our life as a nation depends on it.
88 posted on 04/02/2004 10:55:29 AM PST by Esther Ruth (George W. Bush - My Kids Newest Bestest Super Hero of ALL TIME)
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To: Aquinasfan
Mmmm. I call it the Schoolag Archipelago.

Oh, that's too good. I started reading Solzhenitsyn in 7th grade. Can't beleive I didn't think of that! LOL!

89 posted on 04/02/2004 10:57:13 AM PST by Riley
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To: decimon
Gatto is very interesting but I think that people here will get the wrong idea from what begins here.

The influence of the Ford, Carnegie, and Rockefeller foundations was an eye-opener for me, especially the origins of "School-to-Work" at the turn of the 20th century.

90 posted on 04/02/2004 10:58:02 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
"Schooling" is satanic? "Schooling" is a mighty vague word. What do you propose as a substitute for "schooling?"
91 posted on 04/02/2004 11:00:45 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Tax-chick
Oooh, good one! May I quote you?

Sure. And you can write it on my headstone.

Although I'm not dead yet ;-)

92 posted on 04/02/2004 11:02:42 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
The current situation is actually worse than this.

I agree that the current situation is actually worse but when I was in grade school, junior high, and high school, you can bet I was there to LEARN. My mother made sure of that.

The teachers back then didn't have to worry about whether corporal punishment was allowed or not. If you misbehaved and made the environment one unconducive to learning you got smacked with a paddle in grade school, sent to the principle's office and smacked with a paddle there in junior high, or if in high school, depending on the teacher, got sent to the principle's office and had your parents called to come to the school IMMEDIATELY (and the parents were NOT happy about leaving work to deal with this type of thing), or got smacked (period) by the teacher.

Not all the kids were there to learn but it was made clear that they weren't to interfere with the kids that WERE there to learn.

Man, don't I sound like an old fogey? ;^)

93 posted on 04/02/2004 11:07:43 AM PST by Just another Joe (Monthly donors are better lovers)
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To: r9etb
"Schooling" is satanic? "Schooling" is a mighty vague word. What do you propose as a substitute for "schooling?"

Anything. The status quo ante. The situation before the advent of compulsory schooling in the mid-nineteenth century.

Education is different from schooling, and can happen anywhere. Home. Work. Church. Play. The worst aspect of schooling is compulsory attendance. If you separate that aspect out, I would drop the "satanic" modifier. But if the compulsory aspect of schooling is dropped, the schools will effectively cease to exist.

I don't even like Catholic schools, and I'm a Catholic. I look at them as necessary evils, which were made necessary by the compulsory attendance laws of the mid-nineteenth century.

94 posted on 04/02/2004 11:13:50 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Just another Joe
Not all the kids were there to learn but it was made clear that they weren't to interfere with the kids that WERE there to learn.

I understand the point you're making, and it's a valid one. But my point is that no one emerges from schooling unscathed, even the "good" students.

I was a "good" student. I did everything "right." And I left school utterly confused and depressed, alienated from myself, and ignorant of the things that matter most in life.

In some ways, the "bad" students are better off. They're more conscious of the fact that they're being abused.

95 posted on 04/02/2004 11:21:32 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
But if the compulsory aspect of schooling is dropped, the schools will effectively cease to exist.

I could probably agree with your take on "compulsory," but dropping it would not cause schools to disappear -- that's just silly. People want their kids to learn, and schools are a good way to ensure it. We even know that public schools can work, because they used to be good, and in many places they still are good.

You're basically saying that the problem with schools is an agenda. That's not correct, either. The problem is that good people have done nothing, and let that agenda be instituted. You'll notice that this is not isolated to schools, but is instead everywhere -- churches, Congress, and even city parks.

You're tilting at the wrong windmill, A-man -- the existence of school buildings and tax-paid teachers is not the problem. Once you identify the real problems -- and you know as well as I do that they're moral and religious problems -- and the solutions begin to suggest themselves.

96 posted on 04/02/2004 11:22:16 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Aquinasfan
I'm still very angry. But at least now I understand why.

Me, too. I figured it out (with some help from my prayer group) when I started having nightmares and throwing up as my daughter approached "junior high school" age. I try not to be angry ... there's no one to be productively angry AT, since my parents didn't know any better ... but you'd have to kill me before I'd send my kids to a school.

97 posted on 04/02/2004 11:48:09 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not making this up.)
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To: r9etb
Let me try to clarify my point. Compulsory attendance laws are truly satanic because they forcibly separate parent and child. Parents are a child's primary educators, and any system that subverts parental authority is satanic, since it contradicts God's ordaining will.

After 150 years of schooling, we seem to have lost this notion, or at least suppressed it to a significant level.

The (il)logical result of the adoption of this satanic system has been its explicit rejection of God, and an increase in the positive teaching of immorality.

98 posted on 04/02/2004 11:54:32 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
I was a "good" student. I did everything "right." And I left school utterly confused and depressed, alienated from myself, and ignorant of the things that matter most in life.

I think part of it is the upbringing, the environment you put yourself in, and support from various sources.

I was none of the things you attribute to yourself when I graduated from high school.
My family was one where you could bring any problems to the table, any at all, and the family would help you. They wouldn't SOLVE them for you but they would help you to solve them.
The Boy Scouts were another facet. I was an Eagle scout before I turned 16 and Scouting helped you to learn how to approach life, and solve problems also.
Last, but not least, I had teachers that actually gave a damn and cared. It might have been, and probably was, an anomaly but in my school district the teachers, at least a large majority, were there to teach. They weren't there to babysit you, they weren't there to entertain you, they were there to impart knowledge, and in some cases the wisdom of years of experience.

99 posted on 04/02/2004 11:54:49 AM PST by Just another Joe (Monthly donors are better lovers)
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To: TaxRelief
When Zebra Cakes are outlawed, only outlaws will eat Zebra Cakes -- and Moon Pies with an R-O-C-Co-Cola, of course.......
100 posted on 04/02/2004 12:04:49 PM PST by tracer
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