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U.S. to defend Muslim girl wearing scarf in school
CNN Washington Bureau ^ | 03/30/04 | Terry Frieden

Posted on 03/30/2004 7:21:30 PM PST by coffeebreak

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Justice Department announced Tuesday the government's civil rights lawyers have jumped into a legal case to support a Muslim girl's right to wear a head scarf in a public school.

Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Alex Acosta said government lawyers would support 11-year-old Nashala Hearn, a sixth-grade student who has sued the Muskogee, Oklahoma, Public School District for ordering her to remove her head scarf, or hijab, because it violated the dress code of the Benjamin Franklin Science Academy, which she attended.

The girl continued to wear her hijab to school and was subsequently suspended twice for doing so. The family appealed the suspensions, which were upheld by a district administrative hearing committee.

Her parents filed suit against the Muskogee School District last October.

On Tuesday the federal government filed a motion in a federal court in Muskogee to intervene in support of Nashala's position.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: bigotsrus; civilrights; doj; dresscode; hijab; lawsuit; muslimamericans; muslimstudents; muslimwomen; religiousfreedom
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To: William Martel
Common sense dictates that when the French do something, it's best to do the clear opposite.

ROFL! Well that I can't argue with :)

181 posted on 03/31/2004 11:23:35 AM PST by Fedora
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To: coffeebreak
BUT WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THIS ISSUE INVOLVES CHRISTIANS!?!

I assume they would take the same stand for kids wanting to wear their baseball caps to school when the it's against the rules?

And just an FYI, some schools are providing rooms for Muslim student to pray during Ramadam. (during school hours) A Christian student or teacher can't even pray outloud in a public school, let alone get a special room for it.

Unbelievable.

182 posted on 03/31/2004 11:31:16 AM PST by LisaMalia (In Memory of Sgt. James W. Lunsford..KIA 11-29-69 Binh Dinh S. Vietnam)
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To: Fedora
So, you're arguing that only religions which were expressly tolerated by the Founders should be tolerated in America today?
183 posted on 03/31/2004 11:33:37 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: Exton1
Where are my Ten Commandants.

Go ahead and wear them on your head, if you'd like.

184 posted on 03/31/2004 11:36:34 AM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: Carry_Okie
The Amish don't preach sedition or replacing the Constitution with religious law.

And you have evidence that this girl's family does?

185 posted on 03/31/2004 11:41:02 AM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: Fred Nerks
it's damned ugly and serves no purpose other than to gain publicity

It's a rebellious act. For a while there were a few around here that wore huge turbans, a different color for every day of the week. I hope they reach fulfillment even though those who rebel using a sartorical mode of expression don't often get much further than being a curiosity.

186 posted on 03/31/2004 11:43:38 AM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: CobaltBlue
I think you misunderstood my question. How is it that the terms "establish" and "promote" have come to be used interchangeably?
187 posted on 03/31/2004 11:43:45 AM PST by cantfindagoodscreenname (Stop The Flow of Ketchup to China!! Vote for George Bush in 2004!)
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To: CobaltBlue
Mistreating the 90% is stupid. For that matter, mistreating anybody is stupid. If they commit a crime, arrest them. If they violate the immigration laws, deport them.

Mistreating the 90% is counterproductive, too. It only serves to push people in th 90% into the 10%.

188 posted on 03/31/2004 11:55:56 AM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: Van Jenerette
...for class.
189 posted on 03/31/2004 12:02:25 PM PST by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...If we can keep it!)
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To: Mamzelle
If you allow enough Muslims into the US in full hijab--they'll be assaulting women on the streets who do not wear hijab.

Anyone who was assaulting women because they don't wear the hijab would quickly find themselves facing the full weight of the law. Or, in many cases, gunfire from the assaulted women or their friends and family.

I find the Hijab distasteful, but I find government banning people's peaceful religious practices even more distasteful.

190 posted on 03/31/2004 12:06:04 PM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: coffeebreak
Roy Moore can put the Ten Commandments anywhere he wants, including in the court house lobby.

No, he cannot. He is not free to use his official position, public funds or a public building to promote his religious beliefs. If Judge Moore wants to spend his free time promoting religion, more power to him. He cannot do so, however, on the taxpayer's dime.

191 posted on 03/31/2004 12:10:45 PM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: timm22
>>>> That's a horrible thing to say about a little girl. How would you feel if someone said that about your young daughter or neice?


We all said those kinds of things about Chelsea Clinton.
192 posted on 03/31/2004 12:20:35 PM PST by jojodamofo
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To: E Rocc
Hi, E Rocc,

I'm afraid this would get a bit long if I respond adequately to all of your points, so I'm going to focus on a few essentials, with apologies for not being able to do justice to your entire post. I appreciate your intelligent defense of your position; unfortunately to really get into the details of this would require referencing some case studies, biographical details of the Founding Fathers, etc., which would consume more time than I have at the moment. I will take your arguments into consideration for when I have more time to mull over them.

>The context of this phrase includes the wider context of the Declaration of Independence, which opens with references to "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" and to men being "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights".

Leaving aside the question of whether or not the Constitution's context can be said to include a document it does not reference in any way,

But as I see it, this is a key question: what does the Bill of Rights mean by "religion"? There is no definition of "religion" in the Bill of Rights itself, so to define it we have to consider external documents, and the Delcaration is one of the most significant of these.

these are phrases that could be uttered by a Muslim without real fear of heresy.

Sure, and this is a point where the Judeo-Christian tradition and Islam appeal to a common set of principles, which relates to the point I'm getting at: you can have religious toleration between Judeo-Christian groups and non-Judeo-Christian groups to the extent these groups agree upon some common set of principles. During the 18th century when the Constitution was written, such common principles were widely recognized to be embodied in such historic legal statements as the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. To the extent practitioners of Islam abide consistenly with such principles, I see no problem with extending the same Constitutional protection that applies to Jews and Christians to Muslims. But I see a problem when a religion departs from these principles in a way that is radically inconsistent with them, because this undermines the basis upon which religious tolerance is founded. On a somewhat different issue--though related, because again there is an issue of consistency--I see a problem when Islamic legal activists (by which I have in mind primarily CAIR) try to use the Bill of Rights to secure preferential legal treatment. This of course gets to another point you bring up:

My point is that they do: dress codes should only exist to maintain order and the forbidding of passive displays such as crosses, yamulkes (sic) and Islamic veils represents protected free exercise.

This relates to the states-rights issue I raise in my other posts: I would argue that the Bill of Rights is merely prohibiting the federal government from enforcing/forbidding the expression of religion via the wearing of religious apparel; it is not giving the federal government the right to prohibit state/local or private educational institutions from enforcing dress codes; so when Islam claims protection under such an alleged right, I would argue that it is claiming a protection not even provided to Jews and Christians under the Bill of Rights, and is it thus claiming a right to preferential treatment by the federal government. Your counter-argument would appear to be along the lines of the argument you raise here:

The states may no longer have established religions as the Fourteenth Amendment applied the limitations of the Bill of Rights to all levels of government. I know some deny the validity of this, but it is as accepted a part of modern law as judicial review.

I would be one who would challenge the validity of this, and I would do so partly on the grounds that judicial precedent is only valid to the extent that it is consistent with the intent of the original legal document underlying the precedent in question. Here I would also (beyond the points you raise, so I'm not claiming this is what you're arguing, though I see it as a related issue) be taking issue with the legal realist/critical legal school of legal philosophy, which I feel is the school of legal philosophy underlying CAIR's position on how the Bill of Rights applies to Islam.

Rather than pandering to the anti-Islamic bigotry of the ignorant that is clear from some of the other posts in this thread (not yours), I would think that Christian organizations would support this girl.

I support the girl as a person, but I do not support her lawyers' legal argument.

Again, I appreciate the discussion, and I will take your arguments into consideration.

193 posted on 03/31/2004 12:33:40 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Modernman
The government is not banning anything, peaceful or not, so you needn't worry. Veiling continues apace--. But I believe that hijab should not be allowed in public US schools.
194 posted on 03/31/2004 12:48:26 PM PST by Mamzelle (for a post-neo conservatism)
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To: Mamzelle
But I believe that hijab should not be allowed in public US schools.

Constitutionally, there is no real way to do so.

195 posted on 03/31/2004 12:50:01 PM PST by Modernman (Chthulhu for President! Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?)
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To: jojodamofo
We all said those kinds of things about Chelsea Clinton.

That was wrong, too. She shouldn't have been insulted because of who her father was. Likewise, this girl is probably just a pawn, and shouldn't be insulted for her looks.

Even if you disagree with someone- like Rosie O'Donnell- you should leave appearance out of it. Conservatives are supposed to stand for judging the person on their merits. We are better than the liberals with their "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot" techniques.

196 posted on 03/31/2004 12:53:55 PM PST by timm22
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To: CobaltBlue
So, you're arguing that only religions which were expressly tolerated by the Founders should be tolerated in America today?

No. I'm arguing that the Founders' principles of religious tolerance were originally conceived with reference to a Judeo-Christian paradigm of "religion", and any extrapolation of those principles to religions other than those expressly tolerated during the Founders' time should be consistent with the paradigm originally intended by the Founders. In other words, for instance, it would be consistent with the intent of the Founders to grant Muslims the same freedom from federal coercion granted to Jews and Christians; it would not be consistent for the federal government to coerce state/local or private Judeo-Christian educational institutions to abide by Muslim rules.

197 posted on 03/31/2004 12:56:00 PM PST by Fedora
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To: YoSoy2
This is lawsuit is as stupid as it gets with the exception of American muslim based websites that are antiwest, antiamerican etc. all on a nonprofit basis at the taxpayers expense Check out www.iviews.com if you don't believe me. This stuff is shameful. America IS nuts; we have met the enemy and it is us.
198 posted on 03/31/2004 1:01:05 PM PST by doorknob
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Comment #199 Removed by Moderator

To: KingNo155; ARCADIA
she needs a headscarf

She needs a friggin viel [sic]

Oh my gosh, how evil of you two! She's a little girl. And I think she's a little cutie! Shame on you both!

200 posted on 03/31/2004 1:08:08 PM PST by T Minus Four
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