Terri Schiavo Hospitalized With Apparent Puncture Wounds In Arm! Apparent Foul Play!

WFTV-ABC in Orlando | UNK

[MindBender26]

In 7:25 break, anchor reported "Terri Schiavo was rushed to a Pinellas County emergency room last night after nursing home staff noticed puncture wounds on her arm. The wounds appeared to be caused by a hypodermic needle! Toxicology tests were conducted but the results are not available yet!"

This could open a huge new round in this case. What did tests reveal? Who was last person in room? When was husband there? Was staffer trying the Angle of Death routine?

This will be developing hard all day!

[Ohioan from Florida]

Here's a link (if it works) to the article in question. It is dated October 21, 2003, when Terri would have been on her 6th day without food and water. The lovely (!) author is none other than Mary Jo Melone, who is very anti-Schindler in every report she does. She confines her objectivity to speaking to one vigiler. Her kind of reporting is one reason I go elsewhere for my news information. In my opinion, it's not the Terri supporters who should be ashamed, it's people in the media who have perpetrated the lies about Terri. They feed off the information given them by George Felos, who I will admit, has many of them eating out of his hand! In general, the media have parroted the talking points Felos has given them without even questioning the veracity of them. Why should they? The journalism schools in this country have done a great disservice to our country.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/427441481.html?MAC=b3cfc2342bf116d6976b035114411d01&did=427441481&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Oct+21,+2003&author=MARY+JO+MELONE&printformat=&desc=Schooling+the+young+in+sadness+of+Schiavo

[supercat]

By the way, perhaps you can help explain something else to me.

From my understanding, the purpose of a 'Motion to show cause' is to compel someone to provide evidence that they have in fact carried out a court's order. Although the court as a matter of expediency does not require all recipients of court orders to show the court that the orders have been carried out, recipients of court orders are expected to be able to provide such proof upon demand.

In this case, as in many cases where third parties act against the movant on apparent instruction of the respondent, a movant cannot possibly have personal knowledge of any instructions given by the respondant to the third parties. In most cases, all a movant can be expected to present is personal knowledge of the third parties' actions and reasons for believing that those actions are at the request of the movant (which will, in many cases, be hearsay).

For example, suppose a woman has been ordered to allow her former husband to visit her children. When he shows up at her dwelling, however, her butler refuses him admission and says he has been instructed that the former husband not be allowed in. In such a case, the husband has no 'direct knowledge' that the woman has violated the visitation order. All he knows is (1) a third party has prevented him from seeing his children, and (2) the third party claims to be acting at the behest of the former wife.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of a Motion to Show Cause is not necessarily to punish someone who violates a court order, but rather to establish what needs to be done to ensure that the original order gets carried out in letter and spirit (including, possibly, the issuance of court orders to third parties). It should not be necessary for a movant to have personal knowledge that the respondent prevented the intended function of a court order from being carried out; rather, it should suffice that the movant has personal knowledge that the function of the court order was not carried out, and a reasonable belief that the respondent had something to do with it.

In Terri's case, it seems to me that the Schindlers showed three things: (1) they were not given access to certain medical information which a court order said they should receive [they had personal knowledge of this fact]; (2) they were informed that Michael had not given permission for them to be given such information; (3) an employee of one of the facilities involved indicated that she was instructed not to give out any such information. The latter two points are hearsay, to be sure, but hearsay will necessarily be involved in almost all motions of this type since few movants whose court-ordered rights are abridged by third parties will have direct knowledge of whether such abridgement was a consequence of the respondent's actions.

In short, the Schindlers have personal knowledge that their rights to some of Terri's medical records, which were supposed to be granted by court order, had been denied. They did not have personal knowledge of why the court order's intended function of granting access to such records had been thwarted, but finding that out is what the Motion to Show Cause is for.

BTW, from my understanding--and again please correct me if I'm wrong--subpoenas are frequently issued based upon hearsay. The function of the hearsay in this case would be to establish that it would likely be useful to subpoena certain people so as to establish via sworn and cross-examined testimony what's really going on.

[Deo volente]

First of all, floriduhvoter, let me say that you have been doing a TREMENDOUS job trying to help Terri. Absolutely heroic. Many people at Free Republic have contributed mightily over these past difficult months, and it HAS achieved results. Good results. At the same time, we can not do everything to save her life. We only have our limited roles to play in this tragic drama.

That being said, if Mr. Mindbender wishes to provide the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation with his invaluable PR services, let him contact them. And after he has done that, let him SHUT UP.

His relentless attacks on the good people who have done so much are not only mean-spirited and rude, but also pointless. WE are not professional PR people, or lawyers, or newspaper columnists, or judges, or state attorneys, or other critical decision makers. We are not movers and shakers. The ONLY thing we can do is to protest evil where it may be found, to shout out for anyone to hear, "It is wrong to starve and dehydrate Terri Schindler-Schiavo to death!! It is murder!"

Let the mindbender attack the REAL ENEMY, the insidious culture of death and destruction that envelops our nation in darkness with each passing day. WE are not the enemy. That culture is the enemy, and it must be attacked wherever it shows its devilish face.

It's that simple.

And PLEASE, all of you, IGNORE his blatant and cynical efforts to "divide and conquer".

At some point, he'll take his marbles and go home.

[Republic]

Terri will disappear in direct relation to the visible and loving supporters who give of their most precious time to loyally demonstrate Terri deserves loving care, not imprisonment. That Terri deserves the sunshine upon her face (something MS has denied her since he broke her wheelchair years ago). That Terri's medical records need to be released (why HIDE them from her parents?)What kind of hate would cause a guardian to refuse the parents full knowledge of their daughter's medical records, and FULL VISITATION rights? Did you know they are not allowed to offer her movement therapy, take her on walks (in the wheel chair, of course) or offer her even basic comforts? For what reason, MB?

I love, with full respect and admiration, EVERY SINGLE FR member and others across this nation who keep people awakened to the horrors of this Stephen King like saga.

Obviously, MS was the LAST PERSON TO SEE TERRI.

It is time for cameras to be present in Terri's room.

It is time for an investigation of Terri's original accident.

It is time to shroud MS in a deep and penetrating investigation.

MS is the ONE person, other than his death mongering attorney who is writing a book about Terri's case, who stands to BENEFIT FROM TERRI's DEATH to feel the wrath of our justice system upon his being.

If you cannot stand for Terri Shiavo, an American fully at the mercy of a very suspect and vile husband ( the one busy making babies with his concubine-the concubine whose own mother has stood 'guard' over Terri when the Schindler's have visited Terri-how's that for hurtful and cruel to Terri's parents and Terri?); if you cannot take up the banner and stand for a helpless woman in need of love, then, I ask you, who can you stand for?

MB-you and I and all here will never know the particular email, the certain phone call, the specific demonstrator holding a placard of support that motivates, enlightens, impresses, impacts a person with the power to move Terri into the world and out of her imprisonment.

Imho-it is the bottom line, ie, follow who benefits, follow the money and usually, the motive unfolds with ease.

MS hates the Schindlers. We heard that on his Larry King interview-loudly and clearly.

We all need to renew our prayers. MS can be defeated.

And we all need to fight along with the Schindlers-with every means possible. That is who we are. IF we cannot stand for those unable to stand for themselves-we are not much.

[Republic]

Please note this post by FR_addict! Let's let the police know Michael Shiavo's MO!!!!!! Let them see this creep, understand his prior actions to deprive Terri of therapy and LOVE and comfort.....my GOSH...he has kept her in a HOSPICE (where the standard acceptance procedure is those with six months or LESS to live), something that STILL NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED! Terri has been surrounded with people whose training is in EASING DEATH! So now she is in a nursing home because of rennovation...I'd like THAT ONE INVESTIGATED TO! Methinks Suncoast Hospice is feeling a bit of heat!

"Clearwater Police Dept. have jurisdiction but I don't know the number. That would be for either Morton Plant Hospital or Park Place Assisted Living. Hospice Woodside was Pinellas Park PD. They're all under SAO Bernie McCabe who won't accept calls re: Terri."

The numbers are here:

http://www.clearwaterpolice.org/contact.asp

Hotline (727) 562-4080

24 hour recorded voice messaging system for providing tips on current investigations, requesting non-urgent information, commenting on departmental operations, requesting increased traffic enforcement in your neighborhood, or filing a complaint. Messages left on this automated system are checked every business day. The hotline is not intended for emergencies or urgent requests for police service.

Email: contact@clearwaterpolice.org

(Do not use email to report crimes or incidents in progress. This email address is monitored during weekday business hours only)

And I was given the phone number for the police spokesman: The police spokesman is Wayne Shelor - 727-562-4333

197 posted on 03/30/2004 12:56:11 PM CST by FR_addict

[MindBender26]

Can't go into this in depth without seeing the Motion, but MSC can have multiple purposes far beyond what was described. There may also be some procedural or statutory differences, CA v. FL.

Problem as illustrated is that these are minor remediable points. I say minor relative to the entire live/die issue. Even if found to be in violation, errors like this can be remedied. Happens all the time.

Reality is, family needs GREAT lawyers if they are to overturn the significant STATUTORY advantages help by husband.

Secondly, the PR fiasco orchestrated by some people here has destroyed public support for her. With that has a come a marked decrease in political support.

This is so severe that it can be measured. Support had gone down from 77% to 29%!,,,, and they think they are doing a great job!!!!!!!!

Finally, by attacking every public official, judge, state's attorney, sheriff, (plus reporters, cops, etc.) they have insured that no one in position of authority will come to their defense next time it is needed.

Their 10 seconds of TV time giving sound bites on the nightly news was more important than Terri living. It's like the so-called Conservatives who sit home on election day, so a Dem will be elected, so they will have something to complain about for the next four years.

I'm sorry, but I will not waste any more of my time fighting to try to help. There is too much other good work to be done, too many other people who understand the need to have it done, too many good people who appreciate what is being done to help them and their cause. They're are Rs to elect, drug abuses to fight, environmental wackos to defeat, etc.

My best wishes and prayers are with Terri and her family. When this is all over, when there is absolutely no chance that it could affect the case in any way, I'll bet this is written up in all the PR magazines, and a few of the law journals as well, as to how publicity-hungry fools were the best asset Felon and Michael had in this case. Since it is so video rich, it would be a great "Dateline" piece too. Sorry, but that is the reality that these fools have created.

I wish I could help. I cannot. Gid luck.... and prayers for Terri

[MindBender26]

First of all, floriduhvoter, let me say that you have been doing a TREMENDOUS job trying to help Terri.

Right, a TREMENDOUS job. As a result of that TREMENDOUS job, public support has gone from 77% to 29% and you have alienated every lawyer, judge, journalist, teacher and LEO within the county. Can we get you to please do the same TREMENDOUS job for John Kerry, please!

At the same time, we can not do everything to save her life. We only have our limited roles to play in this tragic drama.

It's rare one can be self-agrandising and try to duck responsibility for a disastrous outcome at the same time.... but you have done it here.

That being said, if Mr. Mindbender wishes to provide the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation with his invaluable PR services, let him contact them. And after he has done that, let him SHUT UP.

I have done both, and I now surrender.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to help, when there are places where I and our clients know progress can be made. Those of you who have destroyed any public support she had have won. Continue at will

When it is all over, when Terri is gone, when nothing can hurt her any more, I or others will probably be contacting you for some quotes for a story on just how "effective" you have been. It will make a great story abut amateur grass-roots activism serving the other side so well. WTVT, WTSP and WFLA all have great video of you, names, etc. so it will be an easy story to do.

You'll love it. What could be wrong with another 18 minutes of camera time for you on TV... what could be wrong with that?????

So today, you win. Terri loses.... as she does every day you further destroy public support for her.

[Republic]

Baloney.

No....HOGWASH!! Big time.

[MindBender26]

You ask a good question in 619 above.

Rather than repeating all of it, I'll just reference it.

Think of this like a death row appeal. There are ordinary days where the legal process grinds on, but only one day when the execution is planned.

Defense lawyers save their final appeals for hours before the scheduled execution, so they can tie up the system when it comes down to the wire.... more appeals, delays, etc.

The problem with pushing to move the guardianship issue forward now is that Terri's family is on very shaky LEGAL ground. If they lose, that issue is then decided.

Better to let it be another last minute appeal, or wait until they have some VERY specific reason (90% sure) why they will win.

Right now, it's probably 65-35 against.... but that said, they still need to follow the advice of their FL lawyer. I am not admitted in FL.... and this discussion is about TACTICS, not LAW.

I pray for her, but have decided there is little I or anyone can do in the face of the damage that continues to be done by the camera hungry, very destructive 2% of her "supporters."

Best of luck, and prayers will continue.

[MindBender26]

My last comment:

Have you SEEN any of the idiocy that has been on TV here?

They let Michael and Felos look like reasoned, sad to be involved people. Michael and Felos are obviously well coached.

Terri's supporters, on the other hand, the 2% of them who demand all the face time on camera look and sound like a bunch of sign-waving loonies. Don't get me wrong. I'm entirely for Terri and the correctness of her cause, but these people, the 2% we see here, look and sound like complete loonies.

Taht's what the video shows.... and that's what's influencing the public's decisions.

I wish it was hogwash. Numbers do not lie... and it's not hogwash, Sorry.

Best of luck and we will pray for Terri.

[cyn]

Have you contacted the Schindlers directly to present your ideas to them? I hope so, since blaming folks here does not help Terri.

My hope, my prayer is that you are sincere in your offer and will do what you can to get a concerted PR campaign going. Strike while the iron is hot, if you are as as outraged and impassioned as the exclamation points in this thread's title suggest.

Meanwhile, I'll be doing what I can, which today is more emails and phone calls. Contact Info

Terri has been rudely assaulted in her bed, is missing TWO (2) teeth, has decubitus ulcers, and God -- who sees all and knows all hearts -- only knows what else is going on in her room.

[cyn]

Yes, that one -- thanks!

[FR_addict]

Thanks for posting your contact list! Lots of good information in one place.

[KDubRN]

What's this about an amputation?? (see depo snippet #505)

Toe or toes were amputated

[KDubRN]

Does anyone know what was the jurisdiction in 1996 when
Michael tried to kill Terri with insulin injections?

St Pete was the jurisdiction

[KDubRN]

"The family has few legal points to stand on. Therefore, they need two things; First, absolutely the best lawyers - nothing else will do - to maximize what little legal leverage that have."

What about Terri? Could a lawyer maximize her legal points as a disabled human being? The gross negligence to her well being - could she sue MS for mismanagment of her jury award? for denial of medical attention, treatment and therapy?

Realize this, a guardian in this state has a lot of power. The one who makes the guardian follow the rules is the judiciary. They are supposed to look out for the ward. In this instance, the judicial system backs MS. That emboldens him. It strokes his ego. Terri is left with no rights, and abuse continues and is condoned by the law.

[KDubRN]

I'm getting cynical . . . who is she in bed with? (figuratively speaking)

Organized crime. (literally speaking)

[KDubRN]

Look--I know that if a judge declares that two plus two make five then, legally, two plus two make five. That would not, however, change the fact that in reality two plus two make four.

I disagree. Doctors are sometimes lethally wrong. Judges are just as lethally wrong in rulings they make.

[russesjunjee]

I did complain..and I even complained nicely. I asked why the reporter didn't talk to us at the vigil, or why no one at the school told us that we might have been bothering the kids? I also pointed out that the hospice was surrounded by police who were just looking for a reason to break up Terri's vigil. Now, if we were terrorizing school kids don't you think the cops would have been all over that?

I received no reply, and then proceeded to do a little deep digging into the St. Pete archives. They do have an occasional decent story about Terri, but by in large they seem really biased against her to me.

[russesjunjee]

Terri needs her grassroots supporters very badly. She needs your emails, your phone calls, and most of all your prayers.

Please don't let the people who have aligned themselves against you make you doubt yourselves. The people in Terri's camp are very capable. They would let us know in a second if we were out of line or doing anything to hurt Terri. We need to be looking to Terri's people for guidance, not the promoters of negativism who have infiltrated Terri's threads.

Don't get down! Don't get discouraged! There are many people like Terri who are going to need your help! Fight the good fight! You are all wonderful!