God’s Word v. God’s Spirit? A Case of Methodist Madness

BreakPoint with Charles Colson | March 29, 2004 | Charles Colson

[Mr. Silverback]

Nine years ago, Karen Dammann quietly moved in with her lesbian lover. She didn’t advertise the fact because, as a United Methodist pastor, she risked losing her job if she did so. The denomination’s Book of Discipline condemns homosexual acts and prohibits ordination of practicing homosexuals.

For six years Ms. Dammann kept her secret from church officials. Then in February 2001, while seeking a new pastoral appointment, in a letter to her bishop she confirmed that she was a practicing homosexual. Against his own wishes, but compelled by church law, Bishop Elias Galvan filed a charge against Dammann. The case came to trial in a church court, and last week a jury of thirteen Methodist pastors, eight women and five men, declared Ms. Dammann not guilty.

The jury demonstrated a remarkably flexible attitude toward the facts. It declared, “The church did not present sufficient, clear, and convincing evidence to sustain the charge.” In other words, Dammann’s letter, her frequent public statements about her homosexuality, and her visible public behavior do not prove she has engaged in homosexual acts? Or what about the fact that she and her partner obtained a “marriage license” from the city clerk of Portland, Oregon?

The jurors also indicated they were puzzled about the meaning of the words incompatible with Christian teaching. They decided that the words don’t mean what they seem to say and are open to various interpretations. Explaining its conclusions and decision, the court stated, “We depended on the leading of the Holy Spirit.”

Well, I can understand the assault on biblical morality by secularists. After all, they consider the Bible irrelevant to their lives. But to witness the same assault from people who identify themselves as Christian pastors and spiritual leaders is heartwrenching—and outrageous. It’s a claim that the Holy Spirit who inspired the Scriptures also contradicts His own word and welcomes gross sin into the heart of the Church.

With 8.5 million members, the United Methodist Church is the third largest denomination in the United States . Its history goes back to one of the most godly and effective preachers of all time, John Wesley. Wesley’s immense influence transformed the moral and social landscape of England in the mid- to late-1700s. Countless lives were salvaged from crime, drunkenness, and debauchery.

From the beginning the Methodists identified themselves as a “holiness movement.” They aspired to experience the life of Jesus Christ working in and through their consecrated hearts. From them other laudable movements have sprung, including the Salvation Army.

The United Methodists have repeatedly voted against relaxing policies on homosexuality. But their decisions have been severely undermined by this court that found ambiguity where there was none and has sown confusion in the lives of Methodists who read the Bible as a source of morality and truth.

In the midst this relativism in the culture and now in the Church, believing Christians must stand firm. If you’re a United Methodist, protest to your bishop. If you are in another denomination, be forewarned: This fight will not stop with the Methodists.

[Mr. Silverback]

From what I understand, the UMC is pretty much like the Chinese State Church at this point. Certainly, neither of the UMC churches in my town have a problem providing meeting space to local ANSWER offshoots like the Nat'l Youth and Student Peace Coalition. Hey, who cares if commies killed 100 million people last century, it's all about the love, baby!

And he's right, it won't stop with the UMC. Consider this article a spiritual war warning.

[Mr. Silverback]

BreakPoint/Chuck Colson Ping! If anyone wants on or off my BreakPoint Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

[Mr. Mulliner]

More shenanigans from your former denomination.

Our family nearly became UMC members when I was 8 years old. Now I'm glad we never did as it would certainly have come to us leaving at some point, probably long before this.

[Miss Marple]

It is heartbreaking what has happened to a proud old demoniation. You are right, this is just one of many reasons why I left.

[secret garden]

At least they pretended to take her to court for a just hearing ping.

[ahadams2]

Ping.

[Biblebelter]

My great grandfather helped found a Methodist Church in the 1870's. My family stuck with the church for nearly a 100 years. But in reality, the church left them years before. Most of the family has migrated to non-denominational evangelistic churches for their spiritual homes.

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

We (A Catholic family) sent our children to a Methodist school for 2 years. We thought that the basic Christian tenents were similar. Boy were we wrong. At the start of the 3rd year a lesbian couple enrolled their children and anyone who questioned how the topic would be approached was called homophobic and ubChristian. We are homeschooling now and the church and the school are hemoraging money and members.

[joesnuffy]

What does your Creator have to say about sexual abstinence until marriage?
1 Thes. 4:3:
"For this is the will of Yahweh, your
sanctification; that is, that you abstain from
sexual immorality (fornication); ..."


Rom. 12:1-2 (KJV):
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the
mercies of Yahweh, that ye present your
bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable
unto Yahweh, which is your reasonable
service."


Rom. 13:13:
"Let us behave properly as in the day, not
in carousing and drunkenness, nor in
sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in
strife and jealousy."


1 Cor. 5:11:
"But actually, I wrote to you not to
associate with any so-called brother if he
should be an immoral person ... not even to
eat with such a one."


1 Cor. 6:9-10:
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous
shall not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do
not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor homosexuals, ... shall inherit the
kingdom of Yahweh."


1 Cor. 6:19-20:
"Or do you not know that your body is a
temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you,
whom you have from Yahweh, and that you
are not your own? For you have been
bought with a price; therefore glorify
Yahweh in your body."


2 Cor. 12:21:
"I am afraid that when I come again my
God may humiliate me before you, and I
may mourn over many of those who have
sinned in the past and have not repented of
the impurity, immorality and sensuality
which they have practiced."


Gal. 5:19-21:
"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
... and things like these, of which I
forewarn you just as I have forewarned
you that those who practice such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh."


Eph. 5:5:
"For this you know with certainty, that no
immoral or impure person or covetous
man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance
in the kingdom of Messiah and Yahweh."




Phil. 2:3-4:
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty
conceit, but with humility of mind let each
of you regard one another as more
important than himself; do not merely look
out for your own personal interests, but
also for the interests of others."


1 Tim. 1:9-10:
"Realizing the fact that the law is not made
for a righteous man, but for those who are
lawless and rebellious, for ... immoral men
and homosexuals ... and whatever else is
contrary to sound teaching."


2 Tim. 2:22:
"Flee youthful lusts, and pursue
righteousness, faith, love and peace, with
those who call on the Lord from a pure
heart."


1 Pet. 2:11:
"Beloved, I urge you as aliens and
strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts,
which wage war against the soul."


Acts 15:28-29:
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and
to us to lay upon you no greater burden
than these essentials: that you abstain from
things sacrificed from idols and from blood
and from things strangled and from
fornication; if you keep yourselves free
from such things, you will do well.
Farewell."


Rev. 21:8:
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and
abominable and murderers and immoral
persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all
liars, their part will be in the lake that burns
with fire and brimstone, which is the second
death."


Rev. 22:15:
"Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers
and the immoral persons and the
murderers and the idolaters, and everyone
who loves and practices lying.

[Spell Correctly]

The Methodist church in 1870 wouldn't recognize the one today.

As a matter of fact, the Methodist Church played a huge role in the history of the Pentecostal movement in the United States.

[anniegetyourgun]

You are just one of many over the last 2 decades who have left mainline denominations for their abominations. The separation between the Church and the anti-church is becoming clearer everyday.....as we approach "that day."

[Agnes Heep]

She didn’t advertise the fact because, as a United Methodist pastor, she risked losing her job if she did so.

I suppose the Almighty's perspective never entered into the equation. As long as she could hoodwink the Methodists she felt she'd be okay.

[anniegetyourgun]

“We depended on the leading of the Holy Spirit.”

The Word of God says that blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. It is what is referred to as the unpardonable sin. (Matt. 12) I believe these people are treading on such ground. Woe unto them.

[kenth]

I grew up in and around the Indian Methodist Church wherein my grandfather was a minister. There wasn't any sillyness associated with these as far as I can remember even though they started as a mission of the UMC.

It's a shame. It appears that the UMC is quickly going the way of the Episcopal Church. Just take a gander at the UMC website and see what rates being on their front page...

http://www.umc.org

[Mr. Silverback]

Just take a gander at the UMC website and see what rates being on their front page...

Earth Day 2004: Discovering Harmony Between Spiritual and Earthly Issues

Mother pus bucket! And they've got the Christian peacemaker (read: appeaser) teams on their rotating photo dealie.

Woe to those who call good, evil, and evil, good.

[Semi Civil Servant]

Wesley brothers spinning in graves bump.

[Louisiana]

Check out the Southern Baptist Website

www.sbc.net

[Esther Ruth]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness..2 Timothy 3:16

Preach the Word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and instruction. 2 Timothy 4:2

[the Wayne]

My great grandfather was Methodist, but my grandfather left. Methodist churches were minimizing the Bible 80 years ago; it's a wonder they've lasted as long as they have.

The Methodists have now been reduced to being social clubs or a gathering of blue-hairs who rent their building to others to pay for expenses. (I've seen both in different cities.)

[txzman]

When you disavow the Bible, or claim only part of it is true, no wonder you cannot understand what may or not be incompatible with it.

Why on earth do these folks even claim to follow Christ? They would be better off in the Bahai faith or a Universalist church.