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Red, Blue and . . . So 17th Century?
Washington Post ^ | 03/28/04 | Joel Kotkin

Posted on 03/27/2004 2:47:56 PM PST by Pokey78

LOS ANGELES

Ideological and theological divisions running deep. Opposing factions so far apart they no longer seem to respect one another. A breakdown in communication. The elites of each side, neither able to appeal to the other, poised like opposing armies ready to do battle.

America 2004? Actually, no. This was the lamentable state of affairs in mid-17th century England, as it teetered on the brink of civil war. But there certainly is something disturbingly familiar about this description of a body politic dividing into two unbreachable camps.

Like England under Charles I, when the Cavaliers -- the royalist supporters of the king -- and the Roundheads -- Puritan upstarts led by Oliver Cromwell -- went at it for seven years of war, the United States today is becoming two nations. This is not merely the age-old split between income groups, as Sen. John Edwards kept suggesting in his unsuccessful campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, but something even more fundamental -- a struggle between contrasting and utterly incompatible worldviews.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: civilwar; culturewar; cwii; twoamericas
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America's Roundheads cluster in the South, the Plains and various parts of the West, while the Cavaliers inhabit the coasts, particularly the large metropolitan centers of the Northeast and Pacific Northwest. Each side has its own views, confirmed by its favored media. Fox TV, most of talk radio, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Sean Hannity speak for the Roundheads, supporting President Bush and America's global mission. The mainstream media, the universities and the cultural establishment, including most of Hollywood, are the voices of the Cavaliers, whose elites, like many of England's Cavaliers and Charles I's French wife before them, are most concerned with winning over continental opinion and mimicking the European way of life.
1 posted on 03/27/2004 2:47:57 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
This sort of strained historical comparison, where facts are distorted to make a consistent comparison, is ridiculous. One could just as easily state that the Cavaliers, in their defense of traditional values and constitutional legitimacy, are the modern conservatives, and the regicide revolutionaries intolerant of traditional religion, are the modern liberals.
2 posted on 03/27/2004 2:52:38 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Pokey78
Um, I would have supporterd the Cavaliers and the King over Oliver Cromwell and his band of roundhead brigands. If you are trying to say the roundheads are the Bushies then just like in the UK the nation will tire of them and ask the Prince to come back and reclaim the crown.

Oliver Cromwell's England was a dictatorship and a failure.

3 posted on 03/27/2004 2:53:21 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Unam Sanctam
Amen, brother. See my post above.
4 posted on 03/27/2004 2:53:55 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Pokey78
Not really a good analogy.

The English civil wars were religious based,which were also cultural, but not in the way Americans would see it in 2004.It also had to do with Charles I dissolving Parliament and the Divine Right of Kings.

What you wrote is revisionist history and spurious at best.Sorry, but it makes even less sense than the also inaccurate tripe about America and the Roman Empire.

5 posted on 03/27/2004 2:54:49 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Pokey78
It's so simple - GOOD vs. EVIL !!

I rest my case!
6 posted on 03/27/2004 3:06:00 PM PST by CyberAnt (The 2004 Election is for the SOUL of AMERICA)
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To: Pokey78
Yes, on planet Washington Post it was so much nicer when the Democrats ran everything and the Republicans were thrown a bone now and again. They can't stand the fact that Republicans have power so they have to find some horrible social ill that MUST be going on for the people to be so divided. Try this on for size, the Democrats need to bend to the will of the Republicans and everyone will get along just fine.
7 posted on 03/27/2004 3:17:12 PM PST by Casloy
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To: Pokey78; Noumenon; Jeff Head; hosepipe; OWK; redrock; hellinahandcart; NYC GOP Chick; ...
It's a shame that the usual suspects can't see the forest for the trees.

America is approaching a flash point and some here are straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

8 posted on 03/27/2004 3:19:31 PM PST by sauropod (Life is too short to read articles written by Upper West Side twits)
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To: CyberAnt
Complete opposite analysis from the elitist homosexual Richard Florida
9 posted on 03/27/2004 3:20:38 PM PST by raloxk
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To: Destro
Absolutely. This is not a good analogy.

However, aside from that, there is a profound divide, although I'm not sure that it really has an historical precedent.
10 posted on 03/27/2004 3:41:31 PM PST by livius
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To: Pokey78
"AND GEORGE MY LAWFUL KING SHALL BE,
UNTIL THE TIMES DO ALTER."

"BUT THIS BE LAW THAT I'LL MAINTAIN, UNTIL MY DYING DAY SIR
THAT WHATSOEVER KING SHALL REIGN, THE CORPORATIONS STILL HOLD SWAY SIR!"
11 posted on 03/27/2004 3:46:24 PM PST by CAPTAIN PHOTON
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To: Pokey78
Interesting article, had some things I definitely agreed with, others I didn't. Where I think it was most accurate was in its' description of the elitist disdain the Cavalier's had come to feel for their own country (wanting England to become more like the Continent), vis-a-vi the modern day American liberal. Your average American liberal today wishes that this country could be transformed into a larger version of Canada or France, and despises all those old heroic values that made this country the beacon of the world.
12 posted on 03/27/2004 3:50:50 PM PST by A Jovial Cad ('In vino veritas!')
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To: Pokey78
This author gave himself away as a Marxist --- everything is from economics --- in this paragraph:

This changing picture rests on basic economic trends.

And a bad economist at that;

Roundhead America thrives on the basic Bush economic policy of low taxes, low interest rates There is not a person in America that does not thrive on that.

and military spending. This is a cost --- to everybody.

His further argument about the South benefiting more from military spending is outright ridiculous: military is getting more and more high-tech, and California businesses benefit most.

The Cavalier economy struggles with overpriced housing, Garbage: today's housing is not overprices but overused. In 1950s two people per room lived in this country on average, and today it is two rooms per person. An average house builkt today is 50% bigger than in 1950s. And, there are fewer families; many more single people.

the fizzling of the dot-com boom, Really? I thought it were mostly people woh day-traded stocks that got burned, i.e., those rich enough to play.

the shifting of jobs, including skilled ones, overseas. Unemployment today was considered minimal possible even in theory as recently as a decade ago.

the increasing lack of affordable housing and high levels of taxation and environmental regulation in most key Cavalier locales are sending companies to less expensive and less heavily taxed and regulated places, where people can buy homes and businesses can operate most profitably.

Unintentionally, he admits that the liberals bring their own demise by socialist policies.

Note also references to "Bush recession." He can't help it: despite all the quasi-learned talk, he is a poor thinker and a leftist.

13 posted on 03/27/2004 4:00:08 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: Pokey78; archy; Travis McGee
CWII ping
14 posted on 03/27/2004 6:40:56 PM PST by risk
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To: sauropod
America is approaching a flash point and some here are straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

I do admire your way with words - the way you paint such vivid pictures. :)

15 posted on 03/27/2004 6:48:14 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick ("If I could shoot like that, I would still be in the NBA" -- Bill Clinton, circa 1995)
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To: NYC GOP Chick
I wish i could say it was original but it isn't.

Perhaps my use (context) of the phrase qualifies as art ;-).

16 posted on 03/27/2004 7:21:23 PM PST by sauropod (Life is too short to read articles written by Upper West Side twits)
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To: risk; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; archy; backhoe; Badray; bc2; Jack Black; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; ...
CWII ping

Aye!

17 posted on 03/27/2004 7:53:52 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
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To: archy
Terrible analogy, but the author is correct about America being in a pre CW phase. Or as some put it, a "Cold Civil War."


18 posted on 03/27/2004 8:02:36 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
"Is anyone winning?"

Yes. Our external enemies are stronger every day. They're emboldened by our lack of consensus.

19 posted on 03/27/2004 8:12:30 PM PST by risk
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To: risk
We have a lot of external enemies who will gleefully pour gasoline on our internal fires.
20 posted on 03/27/2004 8:40:58 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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