Kerry Honeymooned With The Vietcong And North Vietnamese in May 1970

March 25, 2004 | Compiled

[Hon]

As many here might recall, I have been posting about John Kerry's meetings with the Vietcong and North Vietnamese since early February. I found a photograph in Staciewicz's book, Winter Soldier, which shows the VVAW meeting with the delegations of the enemy in March of 1971:

First peace meeting between VVAW and the NLF, Paris, 1971

And I knew from Kerry's own testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that he had also gone to Paris and met with these groups.

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS RELATING TO THE WAR IN SOUTHEAST ASIA

THURSDAY, APRIL 22, 1971

UNITED STATES SENATE;
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS,
Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:05 a.m., in Room 4221, New Senate Office Building, Senator J. W. Fulbright (Chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Fulbright, Symington, Pell, Aiken, Case, and Javits.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you support or do you have any particular views about any one of them you wish to give the committee?

Mr. KERRY. My feeling, Senator, is undoubtedly this Congress, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe that this Congress will, in fact, end the war as we would like to, which is immediately and unilaterallyand, therefore, if I were to speak I would say we would set a date and the date obviously would be the earliest possible date. But I would like to say, in answering that, that I do not believe it is necessary to stall any longer. I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.

But I had no idea that Kerry had gone to Paris and met with the enemy's delegations so early.

Today's Boston Globe finally addressed the elephant in the living room and did some actual reporting on this subject. They found that Kerry went to Paris almost a year before his group, the VVAW, did (and two years before Jane Fonda went to meet the enemy in Hanoi).

Kerry went there on his honeymoon:

Kerry spoke of meeting negotiators on Vietnam

By Michael Kranish and Patrick Healy, Globe Staff, 3/25/2004

WASHINGTON -- In a question-and-answer session before a Senate committee in 1971, John F. Kerry, who was a leading antiwar activist at the time, asserted that 200,000 Vietnamese per year were being "murdered by the United States of America" and said he had gone to Paris and "talked with both delegations at the peace talks" and met with communist representatives.

Kerry, now the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, yesterday confirmed through a spokesman that he did go to Paris and talked privately with a leading communist representative. But the spokesman played down the extent of Kerry's role and said Kerry did not engage in negotiations...

Kerry's speech before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971, is one of the best-known moments of his life when he was involved in Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In that speech, Kerry asked: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

But the follow-up session of questions and answers, made public at the time in the official proceedings of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has received little mainstream notice until now.

When Kerry was asked by committee chairman Senator J. William Fulbright how he proposed to end the war, the former Navy lieutenant said it should be ended immediately and mentioned his involvement in peace talks in Paris.

"I have been to Paris," Kerry said. "I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points . . . ."

The latter was a reference to a communist group based in South Vietnam. Historian Stanley Karnow, author of "Vietnam: A History," described the Provisional Revolutionary Government as "an arm of the North Vietnamese government." Madam Nguyen Thi Binh was a leader of the group and had a list of peace-talk points, including the suggestion that US prisoners of war would be released when American forces withdrew.

After their May 1970 marriage, Kerry traveled to Paris with his wife, Julia Thorne, on a private trip, Meehan said. Kerry did not go to Paris with the intention of meeting with participants in the peace talks or involving himself in the negotiations, Meehan added, saying that while there Kerry had his brief meeting with Binh, which included members of both delegations to the peace talks.

Source

Julia Thorne and John Kerry in 1972

Source

In the Boston Globe story, Kerry's staff attempts to diminish Kerry's trip by saying that he did not "negotiate" with the Viet Cong and NVM. But Kerry himself admits he negotiated in his sworn Senate testimony less than a year later.

Indeed, it was the first thing brought up in Kerry's testimony, after he finished his prepared statement. He was asked his advice, which was basically--accept the terms of the Vietcong as presented to me by their Foreign Minister Madam Binh. He reiterated this several times over the rest of his lengthy comments to the Senate.

In the subsequent months after meeting with the Vietcong and NVM, Kerry was a major propagandist for the so-called "People's Peace Treaty." His group, the VVAW had signed it--in a ceremony--and Kerry promoted it at every opportunity. This "treaty" incorporated every one of the Vietcong's points.

Kerry demanded that the US sign on to the very same terms. In fact, he told this to the Senate on April 18, 1971.

Here are all eight of Madam Binh's points (Binh was the Foreign Minister for the Vietcong) spelled out in the "People's Peace Treaty" that Kerry and the VVAW and signed, and which they demanded the US sign with North Vietnam and the National Liberation Front:

Joint Treaty of Peace

Between the People of The United States of America, South Vietnam and North Vietnam

Preamble

Be it known that the American people and the Vietnamese people are not enemies. The war is carried out in the names of the people of the United States and South Vietnam, but without our consent. It destroys the land and people of Vietnam. It drains America of its resources, its youth, and its honor.

We hereby agree to end the war on the following terms, so that both peoples can live under the joy of independence and can devote themselves to building a society based on human equality and respect for the earth. In rejecting the war we also reject all forms of racism and discrimination against people based on color, class, sex, national origin, and ethnic grouping which form the basis of the war policies, past and present, of the United States government.

Terms of Peace Treaty

1. The Americans agree to immediate and total withdrawal from Vietnam, and publicly to set the date by which all U.S. military forces will be removed.
2. The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U. S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal: they will enter discussions to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam.
3. There will be an immediate cease-fire between U. S. forces and those led by the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam.
4. They will enter discussions on the procedures to guarantee the safety of all withdrawing troops.
5. The Americans pledge to end the imposition of Thieu-Ky-Khiem on the people of South Vietnam in order to insure their right to self-determination and so that all political prisoners can be released.
6. The Vietnamese pledge to form a provisional coalition government to organize democratic elections. All parties agree to respect the results of elections in which all South Vietnamese can participate freely without the presence of any foreign troops.
7. The South Vietnamese pledge to enter discussion of procedures to guarantee the safety and political freedom of those South Vietnamese who have collaborated with the U. S. or with U. S. -supported regimes.
8. The Americans and Vietnamese agree to respect the independence, peace and neutrality of Laos and Cambodia in accord with the 1954 and 1962 Geneva Conventions and not to interfere in the internal affairs of these two countries.

9. Upon these points of agreement, we pledge to end the war and resolve all other questions in the spirit of self-determination and mutual respect for the independence and political freedom of the people of Vietnam and the United States.

Pledge

By ratifying this agreement, we pledge to take whatever actions are appropriate to implement the terms of the People to people Treaty and to insure its acceptance by the government of the United States.

Source

[Hon]

Thanks. I didn't get to your post after already posting what I just did above.

It sure would be nice to find when Kerry actually went to Paris. And why.

[nightdriver]

John Kerry sure looks like a wussy little whiner in that '72 picture.

[Hon]

Using the Boston Globe's timeline as a starting point, the question is when did Kerry go to Paris to meet with the Vietcong and NVM?

1969

April: Kerry ends his second and final tour in Vietnam.

[Pilots VVAW organizer Adam Walinsky around to rallies and attends Walinsky's "Moratorium" rally in DC--while still on active duty in the Navy.]

1970

January 3: Discharged from the Navy. [Early, so as to run for Congress.]

February: Kerry gives up on his first bid for office as a protest candidate in the race for the Third Congressional district. [This was his excuse for getting an early discharge from the Navy, so that he could run for Congress. He didn't run.]

May 23: Kerry marries Julia Thorne, his best friend's sister. [David Thorne, Kerry's best friend, was a major anti-war activist and the co-author with Kerry of his book, "The New Soldier."]

[September: Kerry attends the four day rally by VVAW called Operation RAW. He is the lead speaker, followed by Jane Fonda.]

1971

January: Attends ''Winter Soldier'' hearings in Detroit, but does not speak. [Kerry does SPEAK. He interviews at least one of the "witnesses" on camera for his pal George Butler's documentary of this event.]

April 22: Kerry testifies before Senate Foreign Relations Committee. [During which he parrots Scott Camil's testimony to the Winter Soldier Investigation and brags about his "negotiations" with the Vietcong and NVM.]

April 23: Kerry and other veterans throw medals and ribbons over a fence at the Capitol to protest the war.

June 20: Debates John O'Neill on ''The Dick Cavett Show.''

[Sabertooth]

It sure would be nice to find when Kerry actually went to Paris. And why.

My take:

He went there with the VVAW in March of 1971, to negotiate with the North Vietnamese, or possibly some time before that to set up the VVAW's meeting with them in March. Did Kerry go to Paris once or twice between May of 1970 and his Congressional Testimony of April, 1971?

Look at the excerpts from your article that deal with Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan:

Kerry, now the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, yesterday confirmed through a spokesman that he did go to Paris and talked privately with a leading communist representative. But the spokesman played down the extent of Kerry's role and said Kerry did not engage in negotiations.

Asked about the appropriateness of Kerry's saying that the United States had "murdered" 200,000 Vietnamese annually when the United States was at war, Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan said "Senator Kerry used a word he deems inappropriate."

Meehan said Kerry "never suggested or believed and absolutely rejects the idea that the word applied to service of the American soldiers in Vietnam." Meehan then declined to say to whom Kerry was referring when he said that the United States had murdered the Vietnamese; Kerry declined to be interviewed about the matter.

< -snip- >

After their May 1970 marriage, Kerry traveled to Paris with his wife, Julia Thorne, on a private trip, Meehan said. Kerry did not go to Paris with the intention of meeting with participants in the peace talks or involving himself in the negotiations, Meehan added, saying that while there Kerry had his brief meeting with Binh, which included members of both delegations to the peace talks.

< -snip- >

Kerry's statement dealt with the question of whether he was trying to negotiate in Paris as a private citizen and was thus on that "borderline" of what was allowable. A US law forbids citizens from negotiating with foreign governments on matters such as peace treaties. Meehan said Kerry was not negotiating.

"Senator Kerry had no role whatsoever in the Paris peace talks or negotiations," Meehan said in his statement. "He did not engage in any negotiations and did not attend any session of the talks. Prior to his Senate testimony, he went to Paris on a private trip, where he had one brief meeting with Madam Binh and others. In an effort to find facts, he learned the status of the peace talks from their point of view and about any progress in resolving the conflict, particularly as it related to the fate of the POWs."

< -snip- >

Meehan, asked to explain Kerry's comment, said: "During a very emotionally charged time in American history, Senator Kerry was testifying against a failed policy, which resulted in the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. That policy resulted in one of the highest civilian casualty rate in the history of war. In answering Senator [George D.] Aiken's question about the consequences of an American withdrawal and potential additional bloodbath, Senator Kerry used a word he deems inappropriate.

"Senator Kerry never suggested or believed and absolutely rejects the idea that the word applied to service of the American soldiers in Vietnam. While opposed to the failed policy, Senator Kerry insisted that Americans must never confuse the war with the warriors."

Thorne was Kerry's cover, giving him the excuse of going to Paris on a private trip on which he just happened to bump into the VVAW and Madame Bine at the Paris Peace Talks. Of course, they met "privately," not at the official negotiating table -- as though he couldn't undermine the U.S. position "privately."

Chronologically, the Kerry-Thorne private Parisian jaunt did indeed come after their wedding in May of 1970 -- up to ten months later.

After returning from Paris and his private talks with Madame Binh, Kerry led the VVAW against Washington D.C. in April, 1971. Coincidence, or coordinated?

I take from this that the Kerry campaign is trying to pre-empt charges that he was negotiating foreign policy while still a private citizen, without the approval of the Executive Branch. I think they are spooked by the CSPAN broadcast last weekend.

Did Kerry testify as to when under what circumstances he went to Paris?

Is it possible that he perjured himself on that point?

Sidebar:

Notice that Kerry, through Meehan, stands by his testimony that U.S. Forces "murdered" 200,000 Vietnamese.

[kabar]

What I suspect happened was that they went to Paris right after their honeymoon--so that Kerry could sharpen his anti-war chops ASAP. What I suspect happened was that they went to Paris right after their honeymoon--so that Kerry could sharpen his anti-war chops ASAP.

What I suspect is more likely is that Kerry went to Paris in March of 1971, the same time that the VVAW was meeting there along with Fonda. Kerry speaks French and he was on the VVAW executive board. I would find it odd that he would not be there despite the fact that he doesn't appear in the picture. Also, the fact that he mentions his meeting to Congress and recites Madame Binh's demands make it sound like the meeting was more recent than 1970.

This could be a significant finding if we can pin Kerry down in Paris at the same time as the VVAW and Fonda. Meehan's response tries to gloss over the meeting as being private and gives the impression it occurred in 1970. Kerry and his handlers should be asked to give the date(s) of his meetings in Paris.

[Hon]

"What I suspect is more likely is that Kerry went to Paris in March of 1971..."

No, that timeline doesn't fit. Kerry had some public press conference or other while the VVAW delegation was in Paris at that time. I've posted about that before. I'll try to find the citations again.

Anyway, I don't think the Boston Globe reporters would be that misleading. I would bet that Kerry went to Paris very soon after leaving Jamaica.

What this does show is that it is very likely that the VVAW got the idea of going to Paris and meeting with the enemy from Kerry. It was probably his idea for them to go.

[Sabertooth]

BTW, do we know if Michael Meehan is related to Martin Meehan?

[kabar]

No, that timeline doesn't fit. Kerry had some public press conference or other while the VVAW delegation was in Paris at that time. I've posted about that before. I'll try to find the citations again.

Thanks for the clarification. I look forward to seeing the citation. Kerry could have gone there as part of an advance team to set things up a few weeks earlier. In any event, at this point we have no specific information on the dates of Kerry's meeting with the Vietnamese Communists in Paris. Fonda was definitely there at that time per the Holzers book, "Aid and Comfort".

I am not worried as much about the Boston Globe reporters being misleading as I am about Kerry and his chief adviser Meehan.

[Hon]

Yeah, here we go. This is from page 103 of "Home To War" and, AFAIK, the only mention of the VVAW going to Paris in Nicosia's book:

"A major coup was the national press conference the VVAW staged in Washington on March 16 [1971]...

Even [as this was going on] the VVAW had two representatives in Paris...offering their apologies to the North Vietnamese for the genocide that had occurred...in Vietnam.

At the press conference in Washington DC, the VVAW...gave John Kerry an opportunity to speak."

So Kerry was in DC when they sent their first delegation to Paris.

[Hon]

"I take from this that the Kerry campaign is trying to pre-empt charges that he was negotiating foreign policy while still a private citizen, without the approval of the Executive Branch."

I think so too. I think that this was an attempt to make it sound like it was just a pleasure trip with his bride. In fact, he went there with the intention of meeting with the Vietcong and North Vietnamese. These things don't just happen.

"Did Kerry testify as to when under what circumstances he went to Paris?"

No, I think I've cited the only place he directly mentioned it. But Kerry saw himself very much as a negotiator. As I've said, he cited McCarthy as precedent.

I've posted the entire transcript of his Senate appearance:

Kerry's Testimony Before The Senate Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971 - Entire Transcript
Congressional Record ^ | March 15, 2004 | John Kerry

Posted on 03/15/2004 10:01:27 AM EST by Hon

[Please especially note Kerry's remarks after his opening statement. He says a number of surprising things.]

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS RELATING TO THE WAR IN SOUTHEAST ASIA

THURSDAY, APRIL 22, 1971

UNITED STATES SENATE;
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS,
Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:05 a.m., in Room 4221, New Senate Office Building, Senator J. W. Fulbright (Chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Fulbright, Symington, Pell, Aiken, Case, and Javits.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

[Hon]

From Kerry's Senate appearance:

Mr. KERRY. Mr. Chairman, I realize that full well as a study of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera. I understand these things.

[Hon]

More from the transcript:

Mr. KERRY. Well, I think if we were to replace the Thieu-Ky-Khiem regime and offer these men sanctuary somewhere, which I think this Government has an obligation to do since we created that government and supported it all along. I think there would not be any problems. The number two man at the Saigon talks to Ambassador Lam was asked by the Concerned Laymen, who visited with them in Paris last month, how long they felt they could survive if the United States would pull out and his answer was 1 week.

++++++

I think the "concerned laymen" are the VVAW's delegation. They were there just about a month before.

Notice that they were negotiating, too. At least it sounds like it.

[JudyB1938]

My best friend's brother became a politician in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. His last name is also Meehan. We grew up together, so I knew him very well. You couldn't ever meet a finer person. I just cringe when I see those other guys with the same last name.

[stockpirate]

This should be reposted!