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U.S. Will Give Cold Fusion Second Look, After 15 Years
NY Times ^ | March 25, 2004 | KENNETH CHANG

Posted on 03/24/2004 11:52:23 PM PST by neverdem

Cold fusion, briefly hailed as the silver-bullet solution to the world's energy problems and since discarded to the same bin of quackery as paranormal phenomena and perpetual motion machines, will soon get a new hearing from Washington.

Despite being pushed to the fringes of physics, cold fusion has continued to be worked on by a small group of scientists, and they say their figures unambiguously verify the original report, that energy can be generated simply by running an electrical current through a jar of water.

Last fall, cold fusion scientists asked the Energy Department to take a second look at the process, and last week, the department agreed.

No public announcement was made. A British magazine, New Scientist, first reported the news this week, and Dr. James F. Decker, deputy director of the science office in the Energy Department, confirmed it in an e-mail interview.

"It was my personal judgment that their request for a review was reasonable," Dr. Decker said.

For advocates of cold fusion, the new review brings them to the cusp of vindication after years of dismissive ridicule.

"I am absolutely delighted that the D.O.E. is finally going to do the right thing," Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, editor of Infinite Energy magazine, said. "There can be no other conclusion than a major new window has opened on physics."

The research is too preliminary to determine whether cold fusion, even if real, will live up to its initial billing as a cheap, bountiful source of energy, said Dr. Peter Hagelstein, a professor of electrical engineering and computer science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who has been working on a theory to explain how the process works. Experiments have generated small amounts of energy, from a fraction of a watt to a few watts.

Still, Dr. Hagelstein added, "I definitely think it has potential for commercial energy production."

Dr. Decker said the scientists, not yet chosen, would probably spend a few days listening to presentations and then offer their thoughts individually. The review panel will not conduct experiments, he said.

"What's on the table is a fairly straightforward question, is there science here or not?" Dr. Hagelstein said. "Most fundamental to this is to get the taint associated with the field hopefully removed."

Fusion, the process that powers the Sun, combines hydrogen atoms, releasing energy as a byproduct. In March 1989, Drs. B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, two chemists at the University of Utah, said they had generated fusion in a tabletop experiment using a jar of heavy water, where the water molecules contain a heavier version of hydrogen, deuterium, and two palladium electrodes. A current running through the electrodes pulled deuterium atoms into the electrodes, which somehow generated heat, the scientists said. Dr. Fleischmann speculated that the heat was coming from fusion of the deuterium atoms.

Other scientists trying to reproduce the seemingly simple experiment found the effects fickle and inconsistent. Because cold fusion, if real, cannot be explained by current theories, the inconsistent results convinced most scientists that it had not occurred. The signs of extra heat, critics said, were experimental mistakes or generated by the current or, perhaps, chemical reactions in the water, but not fusion.

Critics also pointed out that to produce the amount of heat reported, conventional fusion reactions would throw out lethal amounts of radiation, and they argued that the continued health of Drs. Pons and Fleischmann, as well as other experimenters, was proof that no fusion occurred.

Some cold fusion scientists now say they can produce as much as two to three times more energy than in the electric current. The results are also more reproducible, they say. They add that they have definitely seen fusion byproducts, particularly helium in quantities proportional to the heat generated.

After a conference in August, Dr. Hagelstein wrote to Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, asking for a meeting. Dr. Hagelstein; Dr. Michael McKubre of SRI International in Menlo Park, Calif.; and Dr. David J. Nagel of George Washington University met Dr. Decker on Nov. 6.

"They presented some data and asked for a review of the scientific research that has been conducted," Dr. Decker said. "The scientists who came to see me are from excellent scientific institutions and have excellent credentials."

Scientists working on conventional fusion said cold fusion research had fallen off their radar screens.

"I'm surprised," Dr. Stewart C. Prager, a professor of physics at the University of Wisconsin, said. "I thought most of the cold fusion effort had phased out. I'm just not aware of any physics results that motivated this."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; Technical; US: District of Columbia; US: Massachusetts; US: Utah; US: Wisconsin; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: coldfusion; doe; energy; energydepartment; fusion; newscientist; peterhagelstein
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To: Diogenesis
The reaction is a copious source of neutrons. Furthermore, the reaction realeases about 17 MEV of energy, of which a significant portion will be gamma radiation.
121 posted on 03/26/2004 9:45:32 AM PST by punster (q)
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To: kcvl
does anyone remember Snake Plissken in Escape from New York? The President was carrying a tape talking about cold fusion, Snake played part of it in the cab, and the voice mentioned tritium. That's your Snake/fusion trivia for the day.
122 posted on 03/26/2004 9:49:09 AM PST by isom35
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To: punster
"The reaction is a copious source of neutrons.
Furthermore, the reaction realeases about 17 MEV of energy, of which a significant portion will be gamma radiation."

Actually, it is NOT a source of neutrons at room temperature.
Off by a few MeV. The reaction are closer to 20 MeV, consistent with the excited nuclear state of helium.
Furthermore, the gamma radiation (which is technically forbidden, but IS observed at hot fusion temperatures)
does not occur near room temperature, which instead shifts the reactions to the infrared (think, skin depth).

123 posted on 03/26/2004 9:59:12 AM PST by Diogenesis (If you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: sittnick
I don't think we'll see one that can fit a large family (and the ones in my church these days are forced to buy 15 passenger vans due in part to ever more obnoxious child seat rules.)

We had to give up our sedan for a minivan. I like the minivan - I just hate the reason we had to get it.

124 posted on 03/26/2004 10:27:50 AM PST by Nov3
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To: RightWhale
The funds invested are minimal. If nothing else, the educational value might be worth it.

This doesn't make sense. If it's cheap and there is potential, you can count on private business to fund and exploit it. Why are there no takers? On the other hand private business would love to build some nuclear plants but the the gov says No. This is all about leeching the tax payers.
125 posted on 03/26/2004 10:31:31 AM PST by CrucifiedTruth (The Crucified Truth lives forever.)
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To: CrucifiedTruth
Why are there no takers?

The way it seems to go for physicists is that they learn how to do something and then go off to form their own lab to conduct research or development on their own if they see business potential. None have done so. There is a clue there.

126 posted on 03/26/2004 10:38:48 AM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: FairOpinion; All
I think the fact that they are still working on it means that there is a possibility -- emphasizing possibility -- there may be something to it.

It surely would be great if there were.

Even if there's something really here, I don't see any easily harvested pools of deuterium. There could be some useful applications of sono-luminescence discussed in the earlier comments.

127 posted on 03/26/2004 10:53:00 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
They add that they have definitely seen fusion byproducts, particularly helium in quantities proportional to the heat generated

At last! A virtually inexhaustible inexpensive supply of party balloon filler.
128 posted on 03/26/2004 10:57:29 AM PST by kingcanuteus
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To: neverdem
The research is too preliminary to determine whether cold fusion, even if real, will live up to its initial billing as a cheap, bountiful source of energy

Of course it won't... because if it is found that you can generate energy by running electricity through water, the cost of water will skyrocket.

129 posted on 03/26/2004 11:17:48 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (John F-ing Kerry??? NO... F-ING... WAY!!!)
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To: CrucifiedTruth
Yuck! Politics

:rolleyes: Yup, it's a verifiable certitude that scientitists are immune to the human fioble of politics. "Hot fusion" physicists who investigated the implications of Pons' and Fleischmann's work never once contemplated the implications on funding for "hot fusion" research ($15 billion since 1950). /sarcasm

Who knows if "cold Fusion" research could ever lead to a commercially viable energy source, but scientific hyptheses are wrong more often than they are right. Good science embraces failure as valuable and learns from it.

The funding history for "hot fusion" research is something like $15 billion since the beginning. The funding history for cold fusion research is three orders of magnitude less. Apparently measurements of fusion products and energy production from cold fusion are now repeatable.

Continued research is a no brainer. God forbid that new theory be necessary to explain the results - where would that get us. (Oops, more sarcasm.)

130 posted on 03/26/2004 11:34:38 AM PST by delacoert
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To: BMiles2112
Exactly. If you're looking primarily to save money on gas, I think diesel is the way to go. If you're also looking to reduce emissions, current diesel engines can't compete with fuel efficient gas engines or gas-electric hybrids.

False. On account of their much higher miles per gallon, turbodiesels have *lower* emissions per mile. What you might be thinking of is the particulates (i.e. soot) in diesel exhaust. But with particulate filters, the gas coming out a diesel's tail pipe can actually be cleaner than the outside air. (We're behind Europe on this partly because they have removed the sulfur from diesel fuel.) This is why the Passat turbodiesel (with particulate filter) was recently ranked the #1 environmentally-friendly touring car with a high transportation capacity. See

Environmentally #1 Passat TDI with particulate filter

Green Diesel Technology

In this way you can have your cake and eat it too. My '98 TDI Jetta averaged 53 mpg over 7k, including highway and city driving. My best mileage was 60 mpg when I went from Saint Louis, MO to Syracuse, NY (906 miles) on 15 gallons. And that was burning 50% biodiesel made from soybean oil, with my wife and two children in the car, and the trunk stuffed with luggage and more biodiesel for the return trip. No way an Insight or even a new Prius can do that.

131 posted on 03/26/2004 12:46:14 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: heleny
Roads are like closets. The more you have, the more you put in them. Building more roads will not solve a traffic problem, only delay it. More roads lead to more development, as it has always been that way. Towns aren't built in the middle of nowhere.

I live near town and I sail past the gridlock on the in-bound lanes every morning. Millions of people who choose to live 30 miles from the job market is the problem.
132 posted on 03/26/2004 12:55:01 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: delacoert
The point was that CF is cheap. Cheap but no takers anywhere? Hot fusion is provably working but is expensive.Your sarcasm is misplaced. And you're right about the money wasted on hot fusion. Ask the politicians who signed the contracts and selected the teams. It's common knowledge that a lot of that was ... politics. Not research. If it was research we wold be there now.
133 posted on 03/26/2004 1:21:51 PM PST by CrucifiedTruth (The Crucified Truth lives forever.)
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To: adiaireton8
Thanks for the info. You're right, I was thinking particulates, which have always been a problem. If this filter truly does what it claims, that remaining barrier to widespread diesel use is gone, and I would expect a lot more new vehicles in the US to be available with a diesel engine. I assume these filters simply trap the soot in the exhaust and allow it to be burned by the exhaust gasses?
Where do you get the biodiesel? I've heard of it being used in diesels before, but wasn't aware of it being readily available.
134 posted on 03/26/2004 1:32:10 PM PST by BMiles2112
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To: wirestripper
There is no evidense whatsoever that the world is running out of oil. The estimated proven reserves increase with each spike in the price of a barrel of oil. More money per barrel means it is economical to drill deeper and the reserve supply increases. The only shortage is in the low hanging fruit and reserves that are off limits due to regulation (ANWAR). 85% of the Earth's surface is under water and probably contains more undiscovered oil.

BTW: The amount of all the extracted oil since it's discovery would barely fill Lake Tahoe. Look at a globe. lake Tahoe is barely a speck.
135 posted on 03/26/2004 1:51:39 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: adiaireton8
Did the emmisiions mell like freedom fries?
136 posted on 03/26/2004 1:52:43 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Future Snake Eater
if your ass can generate that much heat and pressure

given the reaming it was subjected to by various sgts...I supect it's compressive force is fairly low.

My point is, if "anything" is possible...shouldn't we be able to make it work? Even with just an eensy bit of compressive force?

I realize that is not exactly (i.e. "anything" doesn't mean "anything" that a nimrod with a loose @$$ sitting at a computer could dream up to mock your arguement) but that is what you wrote.

There's a really great book called "At the Fringes of Science" that deals specifically with this question- here's a link to a review: http://members.aol.com/steamdoc/writings/friedlander95.html

The author of the book discriminates between "Wierdo" ideas- i.e. "I might be able to turn coal into diamons using the compressive strength of my fundament" and "unlikely but plausible ideas."

I guess I just have a strong gut reaction against the idea that there are no rules...if that were true, why bother learning physics/material science etc. at all? Why not just make up your own facts?

137 posted on 03/26/2004 2:44:47 PM PST by fourdeuce82d
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To: CrucifiedTruth
Your explanation makes it clear to me that my sarcasm was misdirected. I must admit that I was also irked by your initial comments about hot fusion versus cold fusion, but your second post on that also corrected my knee jert irritation.

I'm not willing to come right out and say that the money for research on hot fusion has been an out and out waste - even if the initial promise has been diluted by the develpoment of difficulties as time has progressed. My comment about the comparison between funding for hot and cold fusion research was simply context in reaction to those who posted about the supposed waste of funding for cold fusion research.

For a variety of reasons, I whole-heartedly support the renewed interest in cold fusion - not the least of which is my disgust at the unfortunate treatment of Martin Fleischmann (and his family) after the ineligant announcement of the preliminary results in 1989. I hope (perhaps in vain) for the vindication of Pons and Fleischmann.

Much more could be said.

Respectfully,
Dave Koert

138 posted on 03/26/2004 3:04:20 PM PST by delacoert
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To: BMiles2112; ffusco
I get my biodiesel at Piasa Motor Fuels in Hartford, Illinois. I buy it pure (B100), and mix it with petrodiesel (although my last 1500 miles I have burned straight B100). For a map of public pumps, see the following:

Biodiesel retail fueling sites

And yes, the exhaust smells like freedom fries!

139 posted on 03/26/2004 3:20:13 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: delacoert
I hope (perhaps in vain) for the vindication of Pons and Fleischmann.

I'll be glad to see cold fusion work too. And I have to retract my initial opposition to funding research. It was shortsighted on my part. Anything that can give us clean energy is worth investigating. Even the slightest chance.
140 posted on 03/26/2004 3:36:00 PM PST by CrucifiedTruth (The Crucified Truth lives forever.)
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