The VVAW Assassination Discussion - "A lot of people were convinced that this was the way to do it."

March 25, 2004 | Compiled

[Sabertooth]

Yes, many here are cheering you on, thinking you are fighting the good fight against Kerry. In reality, I see you as trying to portray FR as being a fringe conspiracy site.

< -snip- >

Conspiratorial hyping is good info? Dream on. I see it as a shrewd form of contra-agit-prop, to make FR look bad

Have you seen the Free Republic Network's own Winter Soldier Investigation?

Check out their links, including many about the Kansas City meeting.

[tpaine]

Whatever.. It seems I must retire from the field. See ya..

[Congressman Billybob]

I meant that in the kindest possible way. If you weren't an arrogant twit, what would be left? I shudder to speculate.

Have a nice day.

J / BB

[doug from upland]

MIDI - BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS

It's mid November nineteen seventy one
A major confrontation, friends, was said to have begun
Some vets had done some planning...they were getting really sore
They would move to the next level in attempts to stop the war

The FBI had been watchin' 'em in action
They're gettin' real scary...what's the next thing they would do?
In Kansas City would the plot gain traction
Would senators see pearly gates before the year was through?

A young John F. Kerry had been telling great big lies
U.S. troops pulled off mass murder, that should come as no surprise
They're killing for pleasure and were zapping testicles
Before the U.S. Congress he was spreading all that bull

The FBI had been watchin' 'em in action
They're gettin' real scary...what's the next thing they would do?
In Kansas City would the plot gain traction
Would senators see pearly gates before the year was through?

Back in Vietnam there were some men held by the Cong
They were undergoing torture...that side thought it wasn't wrong
They used John's words...and for the men it's really rough
John F. Kerry, you're a traitor...we have really had enough

The FBI had been watchin' 'em in action
They're gettin' real scary...what's the next thing they would do?
In Kansas City would the plot gain traction
Would senators see pearly gates before the year was through?

Scott Camil had been screamin' "It's time we were votin'!
Are you with or against us...we must know where you all stand"
John told them no and gave his resignation
'Cause after all, you know, that a career had been well-planned

He's hidden the record and hoped we would not find out
But Tom Lipscomb found the story...we know what John's all about
A lesson Kerry learned is now becoming evident
If you are whacking senators, you can't be president

The FBI had been watchin' 'em in action
They're gettin' real scary...what's the next thing they would do?
In Kansas City would the plot gain traction
Would senators see pearly gates before the year was through?

Scott Camil had been screamin' "It's time we were votin'!
Are you with or against us...we must know where you all stand"
John told them no and gave his resignation
'Cause after all, you know, that a career had been well-planned

[Hon]

"A young John F. Kerry had been telling great big lies
U.S. troops pulled off mass murder, that should come as no surprise
They're killing for pleasure and were zapping testicles
Before the U.S. Congress he was spreading all that bull"

Lest we forget, Kerry was parroting the testimony of Scott Camil. (You know, "the kook.")

[doug from upland]

That is correct.

[Hon]

"Camil now proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress, as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement - the ones who would rather die than see America suffer a military defeat in Vietnam. Fine, let them die, suggested Camil - in fact, help them along in that direction and once they were cleared out of the way, a truly democratic America could arise, one that would choose to be at peace with the rest of the world."

Another thing that seems to be conveniently forgotten about the VVAW, was that they didn't limit their hatred of America to the war in Vietnam. They hated the US for its racism, sexism, genocide of Indians, capitalism--and much much more.

This is often overlooked in even Kerry's speeches. He even touched on these topics in his "testimony" before the Senate. The Vietnam war was just the starting point. By this time it was clearly winding down. So they needed to transfer their hatred onto other subjects.

[devolve]

[texasbluebell]

Yep. One of the named targets, John Stennis, was shot in January of 1973, three days after the cease fire between the U.S. and North Vietnam went into effect.

Holy cow.

There is so much I've forgotten from those years. This shooting didn't even register with me.

And Tower and the first (real) Mr. Heinz died only one day apart, albeit years after all this.

I certainly would like know who the other Senators were who were targeted in this plot. So far we have: Helms, Stennis, Tower, and Thurmond, if I'm remembering correctly.

[alnick]

Is Camil part of Kerry's campaign staff now?

[alnick]

You're right. It was just a plot to assassinate a few U.S. senators. No biggie.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Thanks for a great recap -

what strikes me here is:
1. Both Barnes and Upton, altough exclude from the "final" debate, apparently knew quite a bit "first hand". ["When the Phoenix plan first came before the steering committee meeting, John Upton had been standing almost next to Camil,..."]
2. they actually approached a potential "assassin" [I would love to know the who, what, when, where etc... on that!!]
3. The suggestion from Camil is not the same as the one he discussed in his "Oral History Interview". There he described it as an alternative to Kerry's plan at dewey Canyon III.

All of this leads me to believe that the Executive Committee knew, long before the Emergency Meeting in KC, that Camil was entertaining such ideas and may have been actively recruiting -

I'd love to see some more background on this (dates, names, etc...) but it seems the data is hard to find.

[jjbrouwer]

I don't know how much longer I will be posting here if the moderators are going to allow the trolls to post outright libels about me with impugnity.

Yeah, right. You'll be here till they turn the lights out.

[NYCVirago]

Thanks for posting this. On a related subject, the one copy of The New Soldier at the New York Public Library was due January 29, but it still has not been returned. Strange, huh?

[MeekOneGOP]

More on this ...

The VVAW Assassination Discussion - "A lot of people
were convinced that this was the way to do it."

Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my General Interest ping list!. . .don't be shy.

[Carolinamom]

Slightly off topic but about Kerry:

Tuesday night in a Charlotte, NC, radio show (WBT), Steve Gardner, the tenth member of Kerry's crew who lives in nearby Clover, SC, said among several interesting things that at least one of Kerry's Purple Hearts was suspicious. He himself saw the ABRASION..."not even a cut" Garner said. According to his first-hand account, Gardner said that Kerry went to the commanding officer (G. gave his rank and name) and said he wanted a Purple Heart for his "wound". The officer said, "NO WAY." Then, Garner said, Kerry went to two other officers w/the same request (demand?). The first officer, scheduled to leave Vietnam, told them that if THEY wanted to give Kerry the Purple Heart commendation, THEY could do it, but he was not about to write Kerry up for the award himself.

Perhaps this detail is another reason for Kerry to refuse releasing his records.

[Hon]

As you may be aware, it's reported that Kerry's Purple Hearts will be raised in a forthcoming bio of Kerry written by two Boston Globe reporters. I believe they are the same reporters who tried to get Kerry to waive his privacy rights regarding his military medical records, and specifically his treatment for his three wounds.

It was reported that this book will question the propriety of these medals and Kerry's subsequent re-assignment out of Vietnam back to a desk in an Admiral's office in New York City.

[Carolinamom]

Please ping me whenever you know the title and publishing date of this book. Thanks in advance.

[stockpirate]

You should know that the FBI files indicate that the idea was only tabled until the next meeting and most liked the idea.