Board takes up ban on gun sales (.50 Caliber)

oaklandtribune.com ^ | March 22, 2004 | Tamara Grippi

[B4Ranch]

Board takes up ban on gun sales Law would prohibit selling high-powered rifles in unincorporated areas

By Tamara Grippi, STAFF WRITER

MARTINEZ -- High-powered rifles are the target of a new ordinance that will be introduced by the Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors at their meeting Tuesday.

The proposed law would prohibit the sale of .50-caliber rifles in unincorporated areas of the county.

Supervisors John Gioia of Richmond and Gayle Uilkema of Lafayette, who are recommend-ing the ordinance, say the ban is intended as a public safety measure.

Telecommunications towers, industrial plants such as oil refineries and railroad cars could all be vulnerable to serious damage from the high-powered rifles, said Uilkema.

"Guns of that magnitude of .50-caliber have the capability of potentially harming or destroy-ing any of those facilities," Uilkema said.

Unincorporated Contra Costa has only two gun dealerships and neither one sells .50-caliber rifles.

The supervisors said they hope the ban on .50-caliber rifle sales could be used as a "model ordinance" and adopted by various Contra Costa cities.

Gioia said nothing is stopping customers from asking gun dealers to order .50-caliber rifles.

"Theoretically, yes," said Chuck Michel of the California Rifle and Pistol Association. "But they haven't."

Michel didn't buy the supervisors' argument that the ban would further homeland security. "A .50-caliber rifle is a pea shooter for a terrorist. The real problem is not the gun, it's the ammunition. If you use explosive ammunition, it doesn't matter what the caliber is."

Such explosive, armor-piercing ammunition is already illegal.

Several gun control organizations, including the San Francisco-based Legal Community Against Violence, are backing the ordinance.

"This is a class of dangerous and deadly weapons specifically designed for military use and urban combat," said Sam Hoover, staff attorney for the Legal Community Against Violence.

Michel disagrees. "The message that legitimate hunters and target shooters get from this is that 'you don't count' and that 'we don't care about your sport,'" he said.

The California Rifle and Pistol Association plans to sue the county if it approves the ban on the basis that it contradicts state law, which has drawn the line at .60-caliber rifles, Michel said.

The California Penal Code prohibits the possession of "destructive devices," which include weapons capable of firing ammunition .60-caliber or larger.

The county supervisors, however, hope Contra Costa will be one of the forces to persuade the state to adopt tougher legislation.

Similar proposals are already in the pipeline.

Legislation proposed by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, would make it unlawful to manufacture, sell or possess a .50-caliber rifle within California without a permit.

That bill was approved by the state Assembly last year but failed to make it past the state Senate's Public Safety Committee. The legislation has been placed before that committee for reconsideration but no hearing has been scheduled.

[Inyo-Mono]

Mother of G*d!!! That is one hell of a weapon!

[ezo4]

the rcbs tools work just fine :o)

[archy]

"This is a class of dangerous and deadly weapons specifically designed for military use and urban combat,"

urban combat?!?!

.50 is WWWWAAAAYYYY!!!! to big to use in urban combat, unless you want to blow the target into 1,000,000 pieces

The M40A1 106mm recoilless rifle is a dandy tool for urban combat, just the ticket for countersniper use, since it includes a .50 caliber semiauto spotting rifle [.50x77 *short .50*] mounted above the 106mm barrel, with a ballistic profile that matches that of the 106mm High Explosive Antitank round. Just fire the .50 and adjust the fire until its spotter-tracers are impacting on the target, then let fly with the big feller. They are indeed big, heavy and cumbersome; but can be light vehicle mounted, and have proved their worth in conflicts from Cuba in 1958 to the Panama invasion in 1989, and probably since.

And blowing the target into 1,000,000 pieces is exactly the idea....

[Nakota]

The Alaska Pipeline was punctured by a .338 Winchester Magnum, I suppose they are next on the list.

[archy]

Mother of G*d!!! That is one hell of a weapon!

That's the 20mm L/39. The 30mm version is bigger.

Kinda dwarfs a Russian PK medium machinegun, don't it?

[StriperSniper]

First they came for the 50 cal, and I didn't....

[archy]

The Alaska Pipeline was punctured by a .338 Winchester Magnum, I suppose they are next on the list.

The railcar in Wyoming carrying a Peacekeeper missile that was chewed up by 10 rounds of 7.62x39mm, wrecking the missile's guidance system and causing the entire unit to be scrapped at a cost of millions of dollars was likely done for with an SKS... about a year before the Oklahoma City federal courthouse bombing. The SKS is on the list too.

[B4Ranch]

Probably by some guy out for his first caribou hunt. I wonder if he got it on his third shot?

Oh I forgot caribou and the Alaskan pipeline weren't supposed to be compatible. LOL

[tet68]

And to think there was a time when you could buy
a Lahti here in the US for under $100,
I've seen the ads. Of course that was
when we were free.

Only Hollywood has ever used them in a crime.

[XHogPilot]

Re: #57/#58. Your Barrett letter "find" is priceless. He inspires me to spend the extra bucks on one of his products vs less expensive .50s. By the way, Mr. Dillon, of Dillon Precision also has an outstanding attitude. Besides their "commoners" loading equipment, his other company, Dillon Aero manufactures critical assemblies for the GAU-2 7.62 mini-gatling-gun and other military weapons. Their engineering skill with the GAU-2 feeder-delinker assembly has turned a good weapon into an exceptionally reliable system.

[templar]

.45... that's right, get the BMG load necked down to a .45 might prove to be a deadlier and faster round.

There are a few 50/338 wildcatters out there. Impressive from what I've heard, pushing the upper limit of (smokless powder propellant) velocity potential.

[B4Ranch]

I would think a 50/338 would be almost destructive on a barrel.

[supercat]

Indeed, but although they share a projectile diameter, the 50 Beowolf is a straight-walled cartridge with a blunt projectile, which lods through an AR-15 lower (OAL = .223, single stack to fit), while the 50 BMG is a high-velocity bottle-necked rifle cartridge that shoots a mile

Would it be practical to design a bolt-action .50BMG upper for some reasonably-common firearm if the ammunition did not have to feed through the existing lower? I think under current rules an upper which requires a lower to fire is not a "firearm".

I know the Thompson Contenter exists, but I don't know if its stock would really be suitable for use with a .50BMG round. Since rifles like the AR-15 make the stock integral with the upper, it would seem like that might be a better way to go.

[An Old Man]

Ontos Archy, Ontos.

Semper Fi

[archy]

Your Barrett letter "find" is priceless. He inspires me to spend the extra bucks on one of his products vs less expensive .50s. By the way, Mr. Dillon, of Dillon Precision also has an outstanding attitude.

Mike Dillon has been noted as having a policy for not selling the M134 minigun upgrade components he manufactures to other civilian minigun owners, so I don't quite hold him in as high an esteem as you appear to, though I'm not a minigun owner [Hey, wouldn't a half or 5/8th scale A10 with a 7.62 minigun in the snout be a fun little personal aircraft?] myself. Yet. Of course, a quad .50 mount sorting 4- 7,62 miniguns with 3000 rounds each would be kind of spiffy too....

But Barret does indeed make most of its products and upgrade components available to civilian world shooters as well, now also including their 6,8x43mm upper receiver for the M16 family of weapons. And perhaps, too, the Barrett 25mm *Payload rifle* will also be available to Americans guaranteed such ownership by the same constitution that authorizes government to exist, we shall see.

So for now, at least, Ronnie Barrett is a bit higher on my list than Mike Dillon, though the products of both are top-notch.

[archy]

Ontos Archy, Ontos.

Semper Fi

Yeah, I know. But I figure starting with a Jeep or Land Rover-mounted single gun is the way to begin, with both a live and dummy gun available. Then if an Ontos vehicle does come my way within or near my price range, I'll at least have a pair of the guns to mount on it, so it won't look quite so naked.

I did see a nifty-as-heck setup for folding hydraulic ramps to let a WWII Bren Gun carrier [with 81mm mortar] climb into the back of a M35A2 Deuce-and-a-half. It strikes me that the setup would have been perfect for an Ontos, too.

If I do get one, I'm gonna need a crew. You want to drive or shoot?

Whatsa matter? Ain't you never seen a Texan with his six-guns before?

[El Gato]

We are talking about a calibur of weapon that not only isn't currently being sold and isn't being requested.

.50 caliber rifles aren't being sold? Somebody tell TexasCowboy. It must mean he "liberated" this somewhere:

[Squantos]

He he he........was browsing the 10 Mar SGN and read the article by gun geek boy about the 50 whisper........kewl tewl. My version of the urban 50BMG aka the .460 Wby Mag will bother these ban everything bastards eventually also. Sad bunch of losers in power these days.

Stay safe !

[Atlas Sneezed]

Would it be practical to design a bolt-action .50BMG upper for some reasonably-common firearm if the ammunition did not have to feed through the existing lower?

---

Yes, there are a handful of companies out there right now with $1500-2000 50 BMG uppers for your AR-15 lower. Just gun parts. No paper, no NICS, no confiscation.

[risk]

The frog twisted and writhed -- momentarily; this increase in temperature was 2-3 degrees more than the normal jolt. "Ah well," he said to himself, settling back in his deep fat frier. "What do these have to do with me?"